Trumpet HELP!!!!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by emaginethat, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    We do seem to not have the OP giving us enough useful info to make any good advice, other than generalisations.
    Bb and F scale with Tah tonguing hardly translates into memorising marching tunes - unless it is a Bugle. I too .....
  2. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Based on what you say here, I can only say 2 things
    1. Next year you will not be screaming on trumpet
    2. Get a teacher, and follow a sensible daily practice routine.
  3. limepickle

    limepickle Piano User

    Aug 30, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    Are both of your lips inside the cup?
    Does you free buzz sound like a clean vibration (a bee) or does it sound like your uncle after taco bell?

    In your situation, you may feel pressure to get any sound and a decent range immediately, and that
    can cause you to do all the wrong things. Focus on having a good sound, not just a sound; even though it may initially
    cause you to drop back in some areas, you will have steadier improvement and a solid foundation. If improving is
    this hard for you, there probably is a very fundamental problem holding you back.
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I did not attack anyone, but here is post 23 in this thread and "vital" questions (post 6) are still unanswered.

    Notice how emagine did not acknowledge ANY of the well meant posts? I am almost afraid to type the reason for fear I might awake the feelgood police!

    The reason is that many players - even young ones filter out advice that they don't want to read. If a cheat is requested and there is no further DIALOG, posting is a waste of time. If we don't get the attention in the first couple of posts, sound advice is labled - takes too long, involves effort, or a thousand other excuses to avoid a structured approach. Kids are real used to just taking a dump on the parents/teachers desk and unfortunately, the parents/teachers choose to eat it with small spoons instead of passing out shovels and instructions!

    Want to take bets how this thread ends up?

    Structure is not optional. Most of us have been around the trumpet long enough to know that, but are so eager to help that we transmit without regard if the other side is on receive. This is the exact same mistake parents often make, they make decisions for the children that only keep the children "dependent" instead of providing the structure that allows the child to make a good decision (that may be different then what the gut level feeling of the parent was). Politics works the same way: those who promise enough believably get elected - even if that is NOT a good solution.

    Emagine responded once, only to confirm the first post. Quick cheat to improve his social standing in the band.

    I am interested how you guys can motivate this "fine young man" to do the right thing. I have no chance anymore to explain that he has no chance to reach that goal based on the little that we know and the rest that you all assume. Just in case emagine does have basic reading skills and happens to be on "receive":

    Success in life is based on small steps. Luck is the factor that gets us on that trail of small steps. A solid daily routine will build chops, ears and brains over time. Screaming with the trumpet is a long term goal, before you get there, you need the short time goal of getting a decent tone, medium time goal of decent technique. If you are currently over your head in demands in band, you quit for 3-6 months and get your act really together or be greatful that you are allowed to play along and accept that you will need more time to build a good foundation. My suspicion is that you will stay in band, screw up real short term development chances and come back in a couple of years when your playing has run into a brick wall. The other possibility is that you quit or take up an easier instrument.
  5. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    Rowuk, just to explain, I have no problem with what you are saying the way you are saying it or even the fact that you like to "tell it like it is" and more often than not in your case this is not the excuse for rudeness that is often can become.

    What does bother me is the cynical, default assumption that a thread has come from a trouble maker. You are of course right all of us do want to help and if I disagree with another TM memeber on how a player can find his path then why not, one of the joys of this forum is that we can largely all disagree without it becoming a contest of any sort. Healthy discussion is always the way forward rather than name calling, which pardon me you did start when you labelled the OP a trouble maker (troll) with no real evidence other than forum experience. I personally like to think the best of people (even first poster) until proven otherwise.

    I have myself laid into one or two people on here who have refused to listen to any help that is so freely given and told us well I'm going my own sweet way but I would never do it in the first answer to a post

    I assure you, you do have my respect I just think a slight examination of how you judge an inital post may be indicated.
    BigDub likes this.
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I take this seriously. Here is what I wrote - no accusation of being a troublemaker:

    Let me ask a theoretical question: A new poster here asks the same question in the same way that emagine did - and never comes back - do we need that? Second theoretical question: A new poster here asks the same question that emagine in the same way did - and ignores all of the help. How do either of the two use cases differ from "trolling" except for an "assumed" deliberate intention? Third and last question: if most members got used to getting enough facts before proving online what they know, essentially every thread would become better qualified and more helpful.

    What annoys me most is instead of helping this "fine young man" in a qualified way WITH HIS OWN HELP, this thread has become more about indignance and me. The well meant help is essentially useless because this member is not (yet?) in receive mode and probably won't be.

    The first reaction in my often not so humble opinion, should be ENGAGE the member asking for help, not bury them with things that they don't understand. This accomplishes 2 things: we establish that they are listening and we figure out the level of understanding that we can present solutions. Yes, there are those that are incapable of playing a proper longtone or lipslur!

    I really get tired of "well meant". The house that I live in was built by people that were friends of the owner. I have a floor in the kitchen that was built on a weekend "well meant". It has been repaired 4 times in 40 years (actually we live with the cracks in the cement a long time before complaining). It is about as difficult to clean out a kitchen as it is to break bad trumpet playing habits. Kind of fits here too. We have a young player who has been screwing their face up for a year. Can a "teacher" or Bandleader fix that in a year?

    Anyone want to take guesses why I originally posted:
    I knew that this was coming. Sorry that I keep screwing up your world here at TrumpetMaster. In my world Accurate is a long shot away from Cynical - even although they may cause the same symptoms in others only reading casually.

    I'm out. Have fun with Emagine. Am I the hunter with the rifle - or the one surrounded by alligators that hasn't come clean with what I have(n't) and can('t)?.........

  7. BigDub

    BigDub Fortissimo User

    Dec 19, 2009
    Hillsborough, NJ
    emaginethat: don't lose heart. I think you are willing and desire to get better, but just haven't had any decent instruction. I hope you are willing to put the time in that is required to get to the level you want to be. I believe what you say, and encourage you to practice on your own time with either the band director's guidance or a good teacher's instruction. Don't respond to the mocking from other members of your section in any way except by being better than them, but it will take time, so be patient.
  8. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    TM and TH are filled with young, new members who are looking for the quick fix, and I think this is one of them. Almost no one learns how to scream on a trumpet in a year's time, and to that end, no one learns how to play reliably well in a year's time either unless they get to work.

    One of the things I'll bring up from time to time is my experience as a drummer. By the time I started I was 33 years old and an experienced working musician. I assumed that what I knew as a musician would translate to playing drums and that I'd be off to the races in no time.

    The truth was a bit more humbling. I was able to work out certain coordination things in pretty short order, and I was able to apply what I knew musically about rhythm, song structures, and more importantly, music preparation, to my drumming, but getting to a point where I didn't cringe listening to myself on playback took a while. It was about 5 years in before I got to a point where I was consistently performing to a standard I was ok with. There are certain things with touch, timing, dynamics, and control that simply take time, no matter what your level of knowledge may be going into it.

    Bringing this back around to our new young poster, I can't tell if this is someone who honestly and earnestly wants to improve, or if we're getting trolled, but if it really is the former, there's no quick fix - it's going to take focused and diligent work, and improvement will not be measured in days or a couple of weeks - that's just not the way it works.
  9. limepickle

    limepickle Piano User

    Aug 30, 2013
    Dallas, TX
    It doesn't appear to me that emaginethat is looking for a quick fix. It seems to me that
    he has described some critical problems which could be fixed with better form. Yes,
    I would like if emaginethat gave us more details about his playing habits, but there is a lot
    of banter in this thread over nothing. Honestly, emaginethat seems like a struggling student
    who desperately wants to climb to the level of his peers very quickly. Even though that
    isn't plausible, that isn't the same as looking for a quick fix to his problems. Look at some
    of the problems that he described. They seem to reflect a critical problem in his embouchure.
    Once fixed, it is reasonable to expect solid, steady improvement with consistent practice, which
    emaginethat does not seem to be getting at the moment.

    EDIT: Speaking of quick fixes, some of my most critical problems as a young trumpeter (airy tone,
    endurance, tonguing issues, range improvement etc. - problems almost identical to the ones emaginethat described)
    were solved when my private teacher urged me to put my bottom lip inside the cup. It had previously
    been either below or on the bottom rim. What many in this thread are ignoring is that this clearly
    is not a practice time issue. This is very obviously an issue of form which can be solved easily if
    we can diagnose exactly what is wrong with emaginethat's form. Emaginethat- please give us more
    details when you're back.
  10. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    IMO without the one on one live scenario of seeing and listening, none of us can provide a guidance toward solution of a student musician's problems, the solution is acquired only by the student with diligent study over extended time and is not a "quick fix". The only issue I discern is "putting lower lip in the cup" as putting either lip in the cup defeats the design of the cup, but in this circumstance it also means the lowering of the mouthpiece on the upper lip and shutting down the optimum vibration of the lips.

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