Trumpet model

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by OdieLopez3, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    John,

    I did both Louis Maggio books (which CG used as a foundation for his methods) back in 1979. At the time I thought they helped, but I was just a kid. Now, I wouldn't recommend CG or LM methods. Why?

    Well, since Manny Laureano has joined TM I have taken his advice to heart.

    Since doing so, which includes concepts such as aligned spine, relaxed, yet full breathing, constant horn elevation angle and a consistent, "right sized" oral cavity (think of the word Toooooo); I am confident I am playing better now than if I had followed the CG/LM methods which advocate reducing oral cavity as pitch ascends.

    my 2c,

    Greg Zent
     
  2. KJaeger

    KJaeger Pianissimo User

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    I nominate Manny's post as "Post of the Year" thus far - well said...

    -----

    While many of us (I am a prime offender) do tend to obsess way too much about equipment, it can make a difference in the ease or difficulty of producing music...

    For almost 20 years (since HS) I played one horn. I always had a ceiling on my "performance quality" range of around high D or maybe Eb - no matter what I did. I came to pretty much accept that over the years, until a couple of years ago I went looking for a new horn. Trying several models, I found that there was a whole world up there in the upper register that I could play, musically and without strain. Granted, I also had to work on my fundamentals to take advantage of what the equipment now allowed, but I realized that part of the plateau in my growth as a musician hadn't just been me.

    (Part of this is a lesson for everyone - I was largely self-taught as a musician except for my various school band directors. If I had taken lessons from a knowledgeable teacher during my youth who could have helped diagnose what part of my growth or lack thereof was me and what part the equipment, I wouldn't have had to wait 20 years to figure it all out :oops: )

    Recently I sent my 20-year-old horn to Charlie Melk for an overhaul and a new leadpipe. He played the horn and and made basically the same comments that I had been thinking for so long - "You have a a very nice horn, but for me the horn definitely shuts down and stops responding easily around high C". Bingo! And for all of those years I thought it was just me :bash: ...

    A poor musician will not be able to take advantage of the benefits of better equipment, but as a musician improves they can certainly be held back in their growth by equipment that makes expressing themselves musically a lot harder than it has to be.

    (P.S. I just got back my refurbished horn from Charlie to play-test with a new leadpipe, and with other tweaks that he made with solder joints and braces and the like, and it's like a totally different horn now...:cool: )
     
  3. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Exactly!

    The leadpipe is the first "trumpet component" the air column encounters and you've seen first hand what I'm talking about in my "nearness to the lips" imagery.
     
  4. ccNochops

    ccNochops Piano User

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    Nice thing about getting old...

    ...ya get to blame stuff on your mind going....try "Oakes" as in Flip.......Oakley was his sister of musical fame I think. I knew what I meant....at least in my own little world I did. I'm going home to practice now :dontknow:
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Let us look at the mouthpiece closely.
    If you have a deep cup and a relatively open mouthpiece throat, the air will not back up as much. This lessens the support from the air cushion in the mouthpiece and this demands less pressure from behind the lips. This is done by NOT arching the tongue to speed up the airflow (Tooh).
    If you have a very shallow mouthpiece with a smaller mouthpiece throat, the air cushion supports the lips better but you need higher air pressure to keep the lips vibrating. This is done by arching the tongue (Teeh).
    None of this has anything directly to do with what in octave you are playing! It is purely the brass and flesh finding a common denominator to keep the lips vibrating.
    Higher pressure on both sides of the lips, makes the tissue more dense and resonant at a higher frequency, helping the upper range - but only if you are used to playing this way. If you play big mouthpieces and switch to something shallow, your lips literally "fall into" or swell up into the mouthpiece and after a while do not vibrate at all.
    The other way around, if you are used to shallower mouthpieces and switch to a toilet bowl, your lips don't get the support that they are used to and your sound and endurance goes down the drain!
     
  6. John FOWLER

    John FOWLER New Friend

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    Jan 22, 2007
    Dear Greg Zent et al,
    Thanks for your comments.
    Look - I'm just an old blower from the bush, and if you could recommend any (graded and simple) documentation I could follow I am willing to PAY for it (because it is human nature not to value things they get for nothing).

    Over to you ...

    Chookaroo
     
  7. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    John,

    If you're willing to spend some money the most bang for the buck is to get lessons from a professional trumpet player. Manny taught me more in one lesson than I could learn in months reading and using method books.

    Greg
     
  8. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    So what do you do when you play mostly ligit stuff and then get a call to play lead?
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If you offer yourself as a "lead" player, then you have to keep that type of playing reasonably prepared.
    I firmly believe that having 4 or 5 different mouthpieces in my normal practice cycle does not hurt. I play symphonic-Monette B2D/C2, Picc-AP4, flugel/cornet-B2FL, B4 when I am lazy, lead B4L, scream-BL, natural trumpet- Klier 3C(the natural trumpet mouthpiece, not the Bach copy).
    If you practice with them regularly, you can master the switch in a short period of time.
    I didn't even address the issue of the mouthpieces influence on "sound" character. Deep mouthpieces filter high frequencies before they enter the horn. That is, in addition to the increased lip mass, the reason why they sound "darker" for a given player. Shallow mouthpieces let more high frequencies through and that type of sound appeals to me more for lead work.
    I know that there are a number of players that only use one mouthpiece. Good for them. I see a great technical advantage in using different tools for different jobs however. I can feel it, hear it and measure it!
     
  10. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Suffer. ;-)
     

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