Trumpet refurb

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by guywin, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. guywin

    guywin New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2017
    UK, London ish
    Hi all,
    Returning player and keen to get my trumpet running smoothly. It's a Yamaha YTR4320, plenty good enough for me I think.
    The tuning slide is pretty stuck and on both sides. 1st valve slide is good, but 2nd and 3rd won't budge. All the valves are good.
    I've never done any trumpet maintenance but i'm on a budget. Is this something I can fix myself, or would you recommend getting a professional to do this?
    I'm not sure what the trumpet is worth, but I guess that should be considered before splashing out on some repair work. Pics below (i hope). Any advice much appreciated!

    IMG_8767.jpg

    IMG_8766.jpg
     
  2. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

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    Jan 30, 2006
    Naptown
    Its a beginner trumpet and looks to be in decent shape. Stuck slides can be tricky especially if the alignement is out of wack. I would take it to your local brassrepair shop.
     
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  3. pss

    pss Piano User

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    Jun 14, 2016
    Luxembourg
    The 2 series are more than decent beginner horns, the 4 series is supposed to be "intermediate". I don't know the difference, maybe it's just a marketing trick to sell minor cosmetic upgrades, or maybe they have better quality leadpipes (do I see gold brass in there?), or... Anyhow, if the valves are ok this should take you a long way.

    As pointed out by MJ, the best decision would be to take it to a local brassrepair shop. They could give it a good cleaning and have everything sorted out for you.

    But, because you say you are on a budget I will add that I would try to apply a little bit of penetrating oil (e.g. WD40) in the slides, let it settle for a moment (overnight if needed) and than try to free them. I don't see big amounts of corrosion, this shouldn't be too hard for me.

    BUT now it gets complicated, be advised that there are some risks involved, and you can end up breaking something: you need to be gentle with the force you apply when pulling the slides and you need to distribute the force evenly, using e.g. a cloth or towel to pull the slides, but do not use more force than you would normally do just pulling the slides with your hands. Don't force it, if it's not coming out, maybe it needs more oil, or a bit of heating - hairdryer level, not too hot, otherwise you will ruin the lacquer... OR you really need to to take it to a repair shop. "Know when to stop" is a great advice for tinkerers (like me).

    Think about the risks and how much would it cost you to have it repaired in case something goes wrong. Maybe you should find a repair shop and ask for a quote - the last overhaul I paid for costed me c. 130 EUR, soldering a broken slide leg maybe the double.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 9:45 AM
    guywin likes this.
  4. guywin

    guywin New Friend

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    Jul 14, 2017
    UK, London ish
    Superb advice, thanks you very much pss! I'll get a quote first I think, and then weigh things up. Glad to hear this trumpet will do me for a while, once it's in working order. Cheers!
     
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  5. pss

    pss Piano User

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    Jun 14, 2016
    Luxembourg
    I forgot to add that the overhaul I mentioned above included a chem cleaning and the replacement of corks and felts. All these are things that you will probably need in the near future, so try to keep it as your first option.
    Cheers and welcome back to trumpet playing!
     
    guywin likes this.
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    South Salem, NY
    Be very careful with the main slide. This were hydroformed, and what looks to be a joining ferrule attaching the brace is just a tightly fitting short tube, not soldered in place. A typical removal would involve using that ferrule to drive out the slide.

    Also, Yamaha tubing is very conducive to corrosion and the main slide very commonly got VERY stuck. Yamaha at the time suggested cutting the slide, removing each half separately, then fitting a new slide. It was this model that encouraged us to find a grease which youngsters could not easily wipe off. Finding one saved hours of work each rental season. We came up with a thin teflon based product. Other methods of removing these heavily stuck slides involved unsoldering the tuning slide receiver and brace, then heating to almost red then quenching to drive steam into the joint. It worked, but there was a lot of clean up and refinishing involved.

    Another method which worked involved using the other weakness of these models: lack of rigidity. It was sometimes possible, by twisting the trumpet back and forth, to get the slide to start to move. Then you could continue to worry the slide out.

    Don't get me started on their valves.

    Ask me why I am not a fan of this brand.
     
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  7. operagost

    operagost Mezzo Forte User

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    Jan 25, 2009
    Spring City, PA, USA
    I'll save Ivan from "getting started" and point out that the issue with the valves is that they are TOO tight. You might ask why you wouldn't want your valves to be as airtight as possible, but the fact is that a student horn is rarely as well maintained as a professional model, yet Yamaha chose to use the same precision on their student models as the professional ones. It's great to pick up a 2335 or 2320 and hear the same "pop" pulling the slides as when I pull them on my Xeno, but when you have kids failing to oil their valves regularly, failing to empty the water, and leaving the horn in its case all summer it's a recipe for disaster. I wish Yamaha had taken the cost of making tight valves and put it into making proper slides, instead.

    Because of the infamous Yamaha tuning slide issue, just let the tech pull all of them. Were it just the valve slides, or something other than a Yamaha, I would suggest a patient approach first. I use PB Blaster to free slides, myself. WD40 has some ability to break corrosion, but it's not meant for that and PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench are a lot better. Expect to have to spray both the outside of the slide and inside (pull the pistons so you can shoot some into the ports) and wait about 24 hours before it will break up. If you have a tiny wooden mallet, like something you would use to drive tacks in hobby work, you can use that to GENTLY tap around the tubes. E.g., Use 25 tiny taps, rather than 5 hard ones. Then you can try to pull the slide (or push it with BOTH THUMBS EVENLY inside the main tuning slide). With the valve slides, you can tie a shoelace around each (knot it so it won't go flying away) and give it a straight jerk. Don't try to wiggle it sideways or anything. Straight out. With the tuning slide, don't use a shoelace because the slide could kink up or tubes could break. I'm sure you could use other things to break it free, but I don't do it. That's just me. I also don't do the shoelace with the 3rd slide because I put a ding in a bell once. I have the luxury of a tech who gives me a volume discount.

    Needless to say, you need to swab and rise out the horn the best you can after you put penetrating oil in it.
     
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  8. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    South Salem, NY
    If you pull the valves out to get penetrant down the slide tubes, please put them back in before you start to apply any force to move the slides. Otherwise the valve casings are likely to deform - then you have real problems.
     
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  9. pss

    pss Piano User

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    Jun 14, 2016
    Luxembourg
    The beauty of trumpetmaster: you got all levels of advise in one post! from tinkerer (me) to expert user/tech (operagost/Ivan).
    Btw, I was not aware of the Yamaha slides issue, I kept a 2335 inside its case for more than 20 years and it's still fine - I can assure you that it's not because I'm specially careful ...
     
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  10. LaTrompeta

    LaTrompeta Forte User

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    Mountain West, USA
    I'd pay for the bare minimum, but such a trumpet is not worth a lot of effort.
     
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