Trumpetmasters of the universe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by mrmusicnotes, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. mrmusicnotes

    mrmusicnotes Piano User

    Nov 11, 2007
    HI EVERYONE, this morning I read yet another thread that had a certain flavor of distain for the non professional player.My feelings toward this kind of thinking is not a positive one.Just because one does not choose to make his living as a musician, or doesn"t because of the financial drawbacks make him sub par as a player.It should"t be taken for granted that a non pro has nothing to offer.I myself am a comeback player who has been playing now for a solid 10+years everyday.With an established life (wife,kids house,cars etc.)I could never start over right now.I love the trumpet so much that I play it for the love of it,for different venues for my school for free and like to hear what anyone has to offer,no matter how lame.Two heads are always better than one even when the second head is on a different path.I think that some of us could feel we are not wanted hear or feel they shouldn"t post on this site filled with elite players that take offense to our statements.I am not saying this is the case,just what could be percieved.I have met some really great players in my life and they are always the ones that are ready to listen and help anyone,anytime.True Pros!
    simonstl likes this.
  2. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY

    Lots of us aren't pros. That doesn't mean we aren't musicians. To me a musician is someone who plays because he must. We don't choose it as much as it chooses us. I play out at every opportunity, but have never earned even one cent doing so. It is my pleasure to play.

    Yes, occasionally there is a flavor of pro-only sentiment here on TM. But mostly I think anyone is accepted as long as they share what they can and their contribution is not pompous, know-it-all, or disruptive.

    We love trumpets, playing them, listening to them, owning them, collecting them, cleaning and polishing them, sharing them and giving them away. How we do that is up to the individual and I don't believe anyone is sitting in judgment on us, just as we should not be doing the same to them. To me that is what TM is about.
  3. westview1900

    westview1900 Piano User

    Nov 30, 2005
    Everyone has their own experience on this earth. People tend to write about what they know. You can expect a professional to speak about something from a professional's perspective and a amateur from an amateur's perspective. A pro player has to live up to a level of expectations different than an amateur. I have an occupation, but I know that the pros are more competent than me, so in the interest of becoming more competent, I listen to what they have to say.
  4. MFfan

    MFfan Fortissimo User

    Sep 13, 2006
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    I agree with Veery and MrMusicnotes in general. There are attitudinal issues in such a large forum which may bother some and others not. I think I makes a difference in who is doing the posts, whether you perceive that poster to be elitist, full of braggadocio, inane comments, hurtful comments as the entire content of their posts,etc. I don't find much of that that I cannot ignore, or say "consider the source" to myself.
    The regulars here post enough so you can get a more reasoned assessment of what they are talking about for past experiences.

    I was member of the Maynard forum for quite a while, but found the attitude toward amateurs or less- than -Maynard , bands personnel by being fanatics and worshippers, it really bothered me, so I left 1 1/2 years ago for TH and TM and am glad I did.:-)
  5. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    Nov 5, 2008
    Yip the "Elitists" trumpet player's are in my opinion the true trouble makers and the ones that have the the attitude etc...... I said this my first week back as a player when I started visiting various web sites and forum's. I was horrified by what I saw. The disdain is real I have ran into it many times on this very forum and in my case at least it is usualy fromt he moderator's but their are other's that are probably worse but since they are not in a postion of authority I do not place much weight on their actions or attitudes since I do not expect them to be leader's.

    I decided a long time ago that I do not come to this site for the "expert's" or for the "Pro's" etc..... I come here to have a form of fellowship with other come backplayers and regular Joe's like me with a wife and kids in band etc.....I do not worry about the ones that need to have their ego 's stroked or need to parrot the "Elitists" manifesto of non-sense. I am not willing to let them get int he way of friendship, learning and shareing! So just ignore them and within the reals of the forum tell them what you really think of their non-sense.
  6. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    Nov 5, 2008
    You know I work with athletes from 7 years of age up to College and National Level amature athletes. Some of them are as close to proffessional as their sport has since not all sports offer pro-teams and such.I never talk down to anyone on purpose and do not act like a bragard. People come to me from word of mouth and because I get results. I have no need to impress anyone my results speak for themself. Now while I do speak from a point of authority on those issue's associated with training high level athletes I never lose sight of the fact that I myself started out knowing absolutely nothing about sport's or fitness or training. Much of what I know I taught myself by reading and experimenting on myself but I did have some good mentor's along the way.

    I would say that anytime a person rejects a person's worth as a person due to their skill or knowlegde being below their own we have a problem! Every person deserves dignity and respect unless they have denied you the same first. All life is sacred and has meaning. If anything those of us that are "Subeject Matter Expert's" SME's have a duty to help those below us. We should feel honored that we have the skill and ability to help those that got lost along the way or did not have the same oppertunities that we had in what ever area of interest it is. Even the most celabrated pro started off as a wet behind the ear's begginer that had to have his hand held and knose wiped by Mom or Dad. Their is no such thing as a "Self made Man" no one comes out of their mother's womb pick's up a trumpet and just starts to play all of us had to have some level of basic instruction just to get started.

    In fact their are not enough job's inthe music world to support those musicians that want to work in the industry let alone every kid that has picked up a trumpet and played in middle school and High School Band! Serriously working as a musician is a cut throuat business until you get to the top. It is lot'sof small gig's that do not pay well. You often can not support a family right off the bat unless you are lucky enough to get on as a studio musician right fromt he get go which seldom happens I am sure. The alternative is too have a girlfriend or wife with a great day job like a Nurse or Engineer etc.... so that you can indulge in your art and not have to worry about the money side of things. In fact a proffesional musician should be grateful that anyone from a non-player to an amature player supports him by purchaseing the stuff he makes. No matter how you slice it if not for the non-pro's they would not have a job as the number of professional musicians is not large enough to support themself's ie... they cannot sell themselfs enough product to generate an income!
  7. mrmusicnotes

    mrmusicnotes Piano User

    Nov 11, 2007
    I would have to somewhat disagree with you partially.The true so named Elite of this profession are all but happy to listen to anyone,thats how they became elite.For the most part the overall critism on this site is contructive and well thought out.Its only a minute few that think there to good for the overall mass.I opened up this post merely to let everyone know the true feelings of the whole,not to start a big argument and especially not to diss the ones who donate there time and knowledge just for the sake of helping someone.
  8. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    There are idiots at every level. I have met both as pos and amatuers. As a pro for 40 years, I welcome the dialouge we can have on forums like TM. We can all learn from each other. None of us are perfect. Don't let anyone drive you away
  9. CHAMP

    CHAMP Piano User

    Nov 16, 2005
    someone new just joined the elite company on my ignore list...can anyone guess who???

    hint...starts with a love and ends with a vixen555!!!
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    there is a broad cross section of players visiting here. There is also a broad cross section of questions. Some of the questions are from beginners that want to get a real start, some are from players looking for a quick way to overcome the laws of physics.

    I think that is is important to separate the two. I am not aware of any post that shows disdain for any beginner or other non pro. I do criticize what I feel to be questions that do not recognize that what we can do must be earned. Looking for a free lunch is not what I consider serious. There have been many posts about hardware to solve software problems too.

    The basic problem is that for those of us that see qualified help as a free lesson, the desinformation posted by the non-qualified does not even represent a tested opinion. It is pure conjecture. When the uninformed even start to argue about the advice, we are at a point where we question if this all makes any sense.

    The solution is actually quite simple and not reserved for the pros here that are shot at because many think they "should know better" and have a neutral opinion regardless of the nature of the thread. The solution is to qualify what we post. Instead of asking to be spoon fed, check if similar advice has recently been given and read the responses.

    In recent history there have been several fine players that have left the site because they are just tired of "dumb" questions and the bickering about things that have nothing to do with the trumpet. I would consider a question to be qualified as dumb when something for nothing is expected AND a great deal of similar questions have been recently asked and answered like range without practice, mouthpiece to solve range problem......................

    As far as meeting real live pros, yes, a one on one in that environment is MUCH easier. The relationship is real, you can hear, see and feel what they are talking about. The position of the pro is clearer. On the internet, both sides are in the dark.

    If you check the record, none of the posters offering qualified advice are asking for gratitude or even recognition. With very few exceptions, we are not even soliciting students or trying to sell our recordings. We are expected however to accept or ignore things that we prove in teaching and performance daily to be wrong and destructive. The difference between the artist and the average player is not range, tone or technique, it is the intensity of our relation to the trumpet. We love it more than anything else and it hurts to see bad/dumb decisions being made. I am truly sorry if some of you can't/won't accept that.

    If I have insulted any person for a reasonable post. I am truly sorry. If it was what I consider to be a dumb post, then maybe we need to organize someone else to handle that stuff. I cannot look away when I am 100% sure that a mistake is being made. I am open to suggestions about how to motivate those that expect the impossible to reconsider!

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