Two Piece Valve Engine Design????

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Ok I am sure we have all seen trumpets both vintage and new that have the two piece valve engine. I will describe it though just in case. You normaly see a break in the brass casting about 60% of the way up from the bottom cap. The material usualy changes from brass to something else like Nickle though sometimes you do see them use brass still for that portion. They are normaly larger then the rest of the valve engine as well. So I see some companies brag about haveing a two piece valve engine and I have to ask why that is something to brag about? In my mind haveing a two piece valve engine is just a a another thing that can be assembled wrong, get out of alingment or just plane break??? Is it a matter of stasus or rareity or does it have a legitamate purpose for being as in it actualy makes the trumpet sound better or more durable etc??????

    Do not get me worng I think it look's preety as can be but I just do not see it as a selling point or something to brag about? I was at the Jupiter website and I noticed they point this out in their XO sales information. I am just thinking that point out something as mundane as two piece valve caseing would be like trying to sell a trumpet because it had preetier inlaw's inthe button'setc......
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    LV,
    at the end of the day, the quality is not determined by a design parameter. It is determined by how well it is implemented.
    I can understand the valve cluster being made out of brass but having liners made out of a material with more favorable wear characteristics. I can also imagine a sonic advantage based on distribution of mass. I have given up trying to second guess fine manufaturers. My brain just does not have enough room to be good at what I am good at AND what they are good at. That is why I have friends in the industry that I trust. They can think their part for me and I am free to concentrate on my stuff.
     
  3. borge705

    borge705 Pianissimo User

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    It is interesting that it's sometimes marketed as a feature or benefit, but it's probably about as relevant as those "special enzymes" marketed in women's shampoo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  4. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Pianissimo User

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    What ???? You mean to say that those "special enzymes" in my wife's shampoo that I have been using all these years aren't for real ???

    I suppose now you are gonna tell me that there is no Santa Claus either :-(
     
  5. 65Strad

    65Strad Pianissimo User

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    I personally like the "look" of a two piece case of the vintage lacquer Bachs. I have no idea if there are acoustic benefits or not. Bach had gotten away from manufacturing two piece valve cases over 30 or more years ago. Cost is always a consideration, as I suspect it surely was for Selmer, now Conn-Selmer. I'm sure that a failure where the two metals meet is possible, but I don't know of it happening to anyone.

    My contest horn will have a two piece valve cluster thanks to Tedd Waggoner at Bach/ Conn-Selmer willingness to fullfill my "dream trumpet" specs. No doubt that it will look nice, and it is cool to have something that hasn't been done by this manufacturer for over 30 years, but I doubt if there are any "obvious" acoustic benefits. Per Roy Hempley, an authority on all that is Bach; he would like to see some acoustic studies done on this very subject, however this isn't on their radar. They are doing great work over there, some even say that the Bachs are much better in general than the recent pre-strike era.
     
  6. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    The reason is that the inner 'sleeve' is always a very wear resistant material. The fact that it is of a dissimilar metal to the balance of the horn is 'perhaps' a cosmetic advantage. In my 'accumilation' I have a Reynolds Professional cornet that is made of silver plated brass. The upper section of each valve casing and several high wear points are of a high nickel/silver alloy. The basic brass construction is very ductile, allowing ready manufacturing, but, is not very wear resistant. The hand contact points and the valve sleeves, along with the inner tubes of the tuning slides are all nickel/silver. All of this added nickel also helps to obviate red rot and corrosion that locks up those slides.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  7. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Thanks for the info and colorful coments everyone! So it is more durable but is mostly a cosmetic thing for many is how I take it. I do like alot of nickle that is one reason I like my Reynolds Medalist it much have $20 worth of nickle on it if we striped it and minted coins from it!LOL Not only does all that nickle keep thos slides from sticking but I like the weight it add's to the trumpet. I do not feel like I am holding a toy in my hands when I hold that heavy beast! OldLou I suspect you have one of the Medalist like mine made for a short time inthat configuration when Old's bought out Reynolds. Ihear that specific configuration only lasted from like 1963 or 4 to 1968. I love mine!
     
  8. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    I have a Cleveland made 4 digit serial # ( 1936 date), Reynolds Professional cornet, A Texas made Medalist cornet and a Fullerton Ca. built Medalist trumpet. The one with the most nickel, by far, is the eldest one.


    OLDLOU>>
     

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