Valve alignment recommendation - California?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by jgotteach, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    For little outlay I purchased a No 2 Dental mirror $4 and a single LED Booklight $2, this allows me to check the valve alignment in both the up and down positions.

    This has been a revelation to me, the last two horns I had professionaly serviced, cleaned and re-felted came back worse than before they went in.

    My recent purchase of a Mt Vernon Bach from a local dealer, serviced in his shop had a miss alignment of 2mm in the up position. Replacing the new felts with the correct size made a big difference in the performance of the horn, 10 minutes work.

    Bob Reeves Precision Valve Alignment (patented) $220, is an exacting measurement, recording and correction process.

    For a student or part time player the local tech alignment much cheaper will suffice if care is taken.

    A simple test is to see how far a valve has to move before there is a change in sound or feel of a note.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  2. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    I had a Yamaha that was really out in the down position. The valve wasn't going down far enough.. I looked at it and was wondering how in the world that happened. I even took off the valve cap rubber to see if that would help... the valve bottomed out and it was still not depressed far enough. So I took it in and someone had put the wrong valve caps on the horn. I was impressed the local shop figured that one out. ( Morey's Music in Lakewood, Ca.)
     
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Is it just a given that brand new horns are properly aligned?:dontknow:

    Turtle
     
  4. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

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    I have had PVAs done on many horns. some done by Bob Reeves, a couple done by Charlie Melk, one by Flip, one by Tom Green and more than just a couple by Bob Frost. Some horns there was a big difference, in most all I noticed was that the intonation of the horn to itself improved and in a few cases I didn't notice a thing. A PVA never hurt my horn.
     
  5. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Yes! Many times they are not. I demoed a Schilke (new) that needed a PVA!!
     
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    With the advent of CNC machining centers, the manufacturing tolerances can be held more closely than previously possible. This means that a present day Yamaha 2335 will have a more exact alignment than a Mt Vernon Bach! Valve alignment is dependent on the distance between holes which can be maintained very easily. It is the the diameters of the holes which will change as tool tips wear.

    When considering alignment, bear in mind that whatever you do to change the perceived alignment of the ports which are visible (e.g. when you take out the 2nd valve slide and look at the valve when it is depressed), you are also doing to the port from the 3rd valve casing and the port to the 1st valve casing. As I have explained in my blog, you need to be looking for an overall "best fit".
     
  7. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Thanks TL and Ivan. Sounds like a subtle art, getting the valve alignment just right ...... And a good thing to let a technician do.

    Acoustic guitars are fussy in how they're set up .... Some of them come from the factory with very funky setups, where obviously they either haven't taken the time or there was a very long time lag between setup and purchase (the necks shift all the time under the tension of strings).

    I never buy a guitar, either new or used, without giving it over right away to one of the great guitar techs working here. And, every year it goes back for tweaking, mostly neck straightening and action adjustment. However, it doesn't cost $220 .... it's more like $25 - $50.

    Is that a normal price for a PVA?

    Turtle
     
  8. brian moon

    brian moon Forte User

    No, but Bachs aren't usually that bad. The more common alignment problem with them is that the horn needs the spring barrels turned and another problem in almost all horns is having too many chokes. Bore interruptions of that sort can be remedied with The Original Bore Correction.

    I don't think that Reeves turns spring barrels, does he? I have never seen anyone with a definite price for turning valves.


    Schilkes are notorius for the horizontal alignment being off when new.
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    The photo in my blog on valve alignment is of a very new C trumpet from a major US manufacturer. You see that the top port on the valve is too low - what you don't see easily is that the bottom port on the valve is too high. The spacing between these is 0.062" (1/16 inch) too small.

    NO VALVE ALIGNMENT CAN FIX THIS!

    BTW, the manufacturer did not want to discuss this with me.
     
  10. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    What does this mean? Does it refer to the indents pushed into the piston elbows due to the requirement for short valve actions?
     

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