Valve body technical question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by flacoman, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. flacoman

    flacoman Pianissimo User

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    Could a valve body be done with ringed pistons? Methinks it would be lower friction and certainly easier to rebuild (replace ring,instead of re-plate and lap)
    Gotta get better at picking lottery numbers ,so I can get a CNC and start playing with all this stuff.. :dontknow:
     
  2. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    Considering the number of transfer ports in the valve pistons of brass instruments, the number and placement of your intended sealing ring slots would be not only manufacturing cost prohibitive, but also, heavy and require a very thick walled piston. Do you want valve pistons that would have to weigh at least three times the weight of currently made valves? Imagine playing through just the Arbans manual. Think of the spring strength needed to return such heavy valves to their top position. None of the above seems to me to be desireable. In addiotion, isn't the current pricing of decent quality trumpet selections on the market pricey enough?


    OLDLOU>>
     
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    I understand where you are coming from. However OLDLOU has explained the difficulties. So, in a word..no.

    However, let me know when you win the lottery. I could certainly use some CNC.

    And, keep questioning. It is easy for us to succumb to professional blindness, so it is good to get other perspectives.
     
  4. flacoman

    flacoman Pianissimo User

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    Well, let's see.. I f you o-ringed each port , the valves could still be hollow ,but retaining the o-ring on a curved surface :-(
    How about ovaling the valve openings and using standard o-rings around a groove in the valve body? Just because "It's always been done that way " never stopped me before :-) musical instrument makers are a superstitious bunch ,methinks
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If you are concerned, use rotary valves. Only the bearings have a "friction issue" and they can be replaced/replated. Standard valves do not work like pistons in a car as compression has nothing to do with the function. They only move to change the path of the standing wave.

    Trumpet builders are not superstitious, they just understand the necessities and functions better. If you like piston valve horns, just learn to oil properly and wear will become a NON-ISSUE! If someone wanted to help piston trumpet valves get better, come up with a forced lubrication scheme. Far more bang for the buck than making the horn unnecessarily complicated and solving "non-problems".
     
  6. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Carbon fiber pistons would be nice- super light and super hard.

    Perhaps in another 20 years when trumpet builders are a bit more daring....
     
  7. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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  8. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Not sure how one could weave carbon fiber for pistons - Titanium..now that's a possibility.
     
  9. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

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    I believe you could mold carbon fiber to piston like shapes but the cost would out weigh the benifits [if any]. Titanium is a bear to work with [had to make 100 titanium hooks to be used in a chemical laden heat treat area, cutting the threads was a bear and used up tooling]. The materials we use now, monel, nickel and stainless seem to do just fine and at a decent cost.
     
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Even hard monel wears and that slough is washed away with valve oil - I don't expect carbon fibre would need the same lubrication as metal valves but carbon fibre, when turned to dust, is a carcinogen, not something I would recommend near all your breathing tubes.
     

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