Valve body technical question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by flacoman, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

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    Ivan, I'm a big fan of titanium and tantalum for very resistant metals. What about the Boron Nitride family. Now there's a slick sucker. I worked with a lot of ceramics in my 17 years at Corning Glass.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The rotary valves on my picc are made from carbon fiber. The casings from red brass. Ball bearings on the axles. Lätzsch has been doing this for 15 years.

    LÄTZSCH CUSTOM BRASS BREMEN GERMANY
     
  3. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    doesn't changing the material along the path affect the waveform?
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The valves have a lot of solder joints, various metals (Monel, Brass, Aluminum,.....) anyway. I think that the sound is not affected so much there by the material, rather the mass. I have no grief with the carbon fiber rotary valves.
     
  5. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    That's what I was thinking.. carbon fiber less mass... but if it works....
     
  6. flacoman

    flacoman Pianissimo User

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    The day will come when it is a common place thing , how about titanium nitride ? Easy and cheap to apply, common on drill and router bits .
     
  7. Brad-K

    Brad-K Piano User

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    So on the one hand, you've got people replacing plastic valve guides with heavier brass, as well as heavy top and bottom caps, in the pursuit of a more solid response, and better slotting, etc, and you guys are considering lighter, less dense materials for the body of the valve itself.

    If you used piston rings, you would need two or three with their gaps constantly staggered, as to prevent blow-by, and you would probably have to have a crosshatched surface on the casing id, like on cars, in order for it to seal.
    You would also have to stagger and spread out the ports in a way that would allow space for the two or three rings...the current design has the ports overlapping. ....and either way, you would still have a system based on a liquid (oil) seal.

    If you milled a groove around the ports on each piston, have fun with the wall thickness required, and getting o-rings to stay in the grooves, and also have fun keeping the ports from shearing the o-rings right down the middle, like slicing a bagel.

    If you had some kind of induced lubrication system, it would all exit the ports, and everywhere, and you'd have a complete mess.

    Trumpet builders are not superstitious, nor are/were they stupid. They knew what would work, and the way they have it set up works very well, and for a nice, long time, and for a reasonable cost.
     
  8. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    This is not totally true. Early valve pistons were made of a form of wax. No oil allowed on that stuff it would disolve the pistons, and the sealing capability was very marginal.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  9. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    One could possibly use Teflon as can be made so hard that it is used as a roller to stretch shrunken head flesh in brain surgery for re-attaching such flesh to the scalp. Its lubrication is constant even after auto-clave sterilization something that a lubricated bearing can't withstand. The inventor of such was Maurice Kidjel of Hawaii. He also sculpted the bas relief busts for the monument to Thomas Edison that is in Fort Myer FL. Possibly then too our valves would need no oil.
     
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Strangely one of the properties of brass is that it is essentially self lubricating - just saying.

    Let me remind you of the old KISS design principle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012

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