Valve repair question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Selden Guy, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    69
    3,342
    4,192
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    We only have your description, but your tech has actually seen the instrument. I suggest that you either trust the tech (and from your comments you do), or send the horn to someone elsewhere understands these things.

    It is normally a straightforward procedure to straighten a damaged casing, however if your tech has noticed wear in the casings (which will negatively impact the playability) that suggests you will need a valve job - all three of them.
     
    J. Jericho, Brassman64 and flugelgirl like this.
  2. Selden Guy

    Selden Guy New Friend

    24
    4
    Oct 16, 2009
    I looked very carefully at the high spot burnished 1/16 to 1/8 inside the casing near the bottom of stroke and out side where a dent could be. Not to the naked eye is there a dent to be seen outside. You can visually see where the piston bottom hangs up on the high spot . The casing is slightly out of round from the possible crushing , ever so slightly , to the 2nd valve slide compress when it was apparently stepped on in its horn case . BTW the connection of the 2nd slide to the #2 valve casing has no visible deformation. The deformity of the casing is further apparent at the bottom as the valve cap threads on with the most minimal of resistance as it is screwed on . Although you dont advise a lap . Wouldnt a lap done at the bottom of the cylinder from a master be appropriate ? Or a high potential waste of time and loss of casing material and loss of compression ? It appears to me that, YOU would ask to 1. true the case if possible ,without ever lapping . If not successful replate and hone , a better use of labor and quality? Be aware that the damage is only on the lower part of the piston travel as it moves quite well to the visible high spot very low in the casing . Thank you for your highly appreciated advice . I will consult with the master tech as to some possible options. he may have . Have you ever had just 1 valve rebuilt and were you satisfied with the instruments response thereafter ?
     
  3. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    4,875
    5,164
    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    I've had both Ambassadors (several) and Specials. Even though some Ambassadors are excellent for entry level horns, Specials are generally a lot better and can be considered upper-class intermediate horns at least. My last Special outplayed anything I've ever had from Bach (including a series of Strads), and, in fact, was so good that the original seller after some months implored me to allow him to buy it back... I agreed as, by this time, I had found an Olds Studio closet queen (unplayed, original mint condition, with unmarked original case and Olds 3 mouthpiece)...
     
    Selden Guy and Brassman64 like this.
  4. Selden Guy

    Selden Guy New Friend

    24
    4
    Oct 16, 2009
    Thank you for your reply . the Tech mentioned piston wear . Although he is a master could it be that he is such a perfectionist that a 3 valve job is his way to assure the customer of the best repair regardless of the value of the instrument ? We all want our instruments to play perfectly of course . The question than is, it it overkill cost to a player to refurbish to that degree on a student instrument? When a lessor repair (if possible) cost would be sufficient for his style ? I played the instrument valve 1 and 3 they were both in tune to 440 no apparent leakage. Sounded nice to me . I dont have any reputable tech in my area so this master was consulted and the horn sent to him . I will wait for his return call as I have humbly given him my view on the matter . I can ask him for piston and casing specs. I will wait for his reply and take it from there . Thank you for your consideration
     
  5. Selden Guy

    Selden Guy New Friend

    24
    4
    Oct 16, 2009
    Thanks for the reply friend . I do own a LA model Special trumpet '52 first purchased for my son in H/S band in 2011 He has gone on to college and with a science degree and labs he had no time for practice on trumpet but he did join the choir. He told me he could practice singing on the way to class . He was very good and I ask him for technical advice on sight reading . Imagine a 70 yr old comeback being taught by a pup ? I practice every day and love the craftsmanship and beauty of these instruments . I confess I take pride in them and treat them gently . The Olds Special cornet is in very good appearance condition . I even have a dream to hope to join the community concert band if they'll take me . It is a tri color bronze bell circa mid 64. I paid only 200. for it but the damage to the 2nd valve casing (see posts) can wash the value for me . Cie La Vie! I must be practical though, as a Recording could possibly be had for the quoted assessed preliminary repair to this Special . But I will never spend that kind of money sight and sound unseen. Regards
     
  6. adc

    adc Mezzo Forte User

    Age:
    72
    900
    588
    Jan 12, 2017
    Elizabethtown, Pa.
    OK thanks. Yea I keep looking at a Studio Cornet. If I find one that comes from someone reputable I would consider it. I hope it doesn't happen for a while though..lol.
     
  7. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    69
    3,342
    4,192
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    I take it that you have not much playing time under your belt. Leaky valves do not put the instrument out of tune. They make it harder to play, and deaden the response - you do not feel the issue as a "leak". The only fix for leaky valves is a full piston refit - hone casings true and build up the pistons to the new diameter.

    Sounding nice is a subjective comment, meaning very little, especially our being unknowing of your ability. Sugary soda pop tastes nice - but is not all that good for you.

    It is probably overkill to do a valve refit on a student instrument; however students need the best condition instrument possible - otherwise they give up. We do not know where you are; repairing the current horn might be the best solution in your case.
     
    richtom likes this.
  8. Selden Guy

    Selden Guy New Friend

    24
    4
    Oct 16, 2009
    South Salem, NY? well my sister in law lives there .nice place . So a micro measurement of the piston and walls is a good technical/mechanical start ? To determine if valves need to be replated ? and a visual of the bore and piston surface ? and the playing efficiency? all of the above ? So where is the degree when one determines if and when a replate is necessary or at all ? Thicker oil for some, does the trick , No ? Thats arbitrary isnt it and up to the beholder/ player? I have been playing on an Olds Trumpet since 2013 and still practice every day. The resistance is there yes, typical for a Special as it has been said. And with a receiver to pipe gap that is quite large even after a # 7 reeves sleeve to bring it in . The slots are tight above the staff on tricky practice passages with out holding tight corners of the embouchure. Probably more due to my level than the instrument . Practice is not easy for a 70 yr old comeback player after 40 yrs. but fun even if my level is a student. One doesnt make it to 70 by giving up . I do have a pristine Conn B 38 but it's a closet queen, taken out for an occasional spin and lube job . While its somewhat easier to play than the Special the Olds gets my love . Maybe its me, but while a bit easier the Conn (efficient) is not that great a difference and the instrument is near new. That I can tell . and that is subjective to some as well . And I'm sure some would not recommend the Conn as a comparison . heck I dont know where I am in level, but lets say beginner for shoots and giggles . With a journeymans love for playing the best I can be, but with a pocket that doesnt have the lips flexibility or to needlessly drop money for the very best pristine valves when just good enough will suffice . Just think if that were the case most amateurs would buy the current Schilke or Bach or Yamaha or even a custom Calicchio, Taylor or Monette ? Thanks for your great advice I will take it into consideration .
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    62
    17,607
    9,422
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    What do we have in this thread? Hundreds of lines of comments for a simple situation. This is not rocket science. If we can’t improve the casing, then the total repair is necessary.
     
    Brassman64 and trumpetsplus like this.
  10. N1684T

    N1684T Forte User

    1,127
    685
    Jun 28, 2016
    Or maybe just stick some new felts under the caps to keep them a little higher where they don't bind? At least to tell you if you like playing it.
     
    adc likes this.

Share This Page