Valve Trombone

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by surfingmusicman, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. surfingmusicman

    surfingmusicman New Friend

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    Hey, I'm wanting to learn trombone for jazz and commercial stuff. Borrowed a friend's slide bone and decided it will take me too much time to learn how to play slide, so I'm considering valve trombone. I live in Hawaii, so I won't have an opportunity to go to a store and try out different models.

    I've found a little information on this forum, but most posts seem to assume a fairly tight budget. I'm willing to spend $1000+.

    I've read good things about the Kanstul 955. I'm not really looking for a marching trombone, so I'm wondering if the Kanstul 959 (Kanstul.com) might be a good option? But it goes for $2,000+, and I'm wondering if it's that much better than stuff in the $1,000 range.

    I've also heard good things about the Jupiters. Any opinions?

    What about Amatis?

    Any specific input anyone can give me on these horns or others would be greatly appreciated. I can't find hardly any reviews on the web.
     
  2. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    Would you consider a tenor horn? You might find those easier to pick up used for less than $1000 than you can a valved/keyed trombone, and they'd play about the same range.

    However - you want to play trombone for jazz -- I think the slide adds a whole dimension to playing the trombone and jazz takes advantage of that, which you would find hard to emulate on a keyed instrument.

    --bumblebee
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  3. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    I can't give you too much help on valve trombones except that if you truly must eliminate the slide trombone from your doubling aspirations? Well you might think about the flugel-bone. Essentially the rolled up lower brass instrument which handles more like a trumpet.

    To me the valve bone just looks funny.

    But more to my point (and a slight digression from your topic). Seriously consider re-considering your elimination of the slide bone.

    There are those plastic slide trombones for around $150 bucks. Some cheaper. You can't beat that with a stick and they sound surprisingly similar to the real thing. This one goes for only fifty bucks:

    new plastic trombone: pbone gets funky for the first time - YouTube


    All the slide does is lengthen your instrument according to seven positions. Just like your trumpet does mechanically.

    Concert B Flat on trumpet? Open. Concert B Flat trombone? Slide flush or not extended. Aka: "First position".

    Concert A natural trumpet? Second valve. Trombone? Slide out about three inches. Second position

    Concert A Flat trumpet? First valve. Trombone? An inch or so short of the bell. Third position etc.


    Seriously the valve trombone SUCKS in tone compared to the slide. And you get so many advantages in control with the slide. While on the trumpet you must play your first ledger line A natural 1 & 2 valve. Well you can play the equivalent note on the trombone in a short second position. Same as playing your A natural with the second valve but not blowing flat.

    So if i were you? Would GET REAL and play the slide. A few weeks should get you functional to play quarter notes. later you learn to "fake it" by playing quick notes without perfect slide control. You do this by "insisting" that the note blows out even without the perfect slide position. It's how a trombonist goes between his first and seventh position quickly. You lip the notes fast and no one is the wiser.

    It helps to be a natural "ham" to blow the horn. If your personality is that of a show off? the instrument should come even quicker for you.

    So FORGET about the valve bone. Waste of money. Plus no one takes a valve trombonist seriously.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    cool post -- I have been thinking about a double on SLIDE trombone also --- have bid on a couple on Ebay the past year --- just haven't got one yet.
     
  5. mrsemman

    mrsemman Piano User

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    Like you, I wanted to get a valve trombone. However, a baritone player in our band suggested getting a bass trumpet instead. The fingering is the same in the treble clef, as a trumpet, but the sound is an octave lower; and the bass clef isn't too hard to learn if you have a tuner handy. The fingering in the bass clef is different, but not much, as the notes in the spaces are ACEG. You also use the same trombone mouthpiece. I can play the scales and have played trombone parts with it; and only in the one week since I got it. And, I got mine off ebay for $350.00 (it's a Jin Boa, but it has great tone). The only problem I found is that after playing the bass trumpet, and then going to play my cornet, is like trying to buzz the end of a straw.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  6. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    There were a couple of Slide/Valve trombones made by Getzen and I think Olds. You get a Slide as well as a Valve trom section.

    Why not go for a Bass Trumpet as an option? I went that way back in the 1970s when I was a little younger. It got me the sound into my head, then developed the chops to change from trumpet/flugel onto the lower brass. Later I got a slide trombone.

    Now as a comebacker I am happy to play anything (except Tuba - that I cannot get to work, and don't have the $$$ to invest in a good one).

    Good luck, enjoy your music and go get a valve trom. The comment "No-one takes a Valve Trombone player seriously" is wrong. Valve Trom offers it's own advantages. A Superbone will give you both options.

    Bernie's Tune 1981 - YouTube
    Bob Brookmeyer - Misty - YouTube
    LA Jazz Inst.Superbone Meets The Bad Man - YouTube
     
  7. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    I would tend to agree with all of your post, but I did hear that Maynard Ferguson played one once. Is this him?
    [​IMG]

    --bumblebee
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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  9. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    Hey Gary,
    That feeling like playing down a straw will go fairly quickly. Keep your practice routine in place for the Trumpet, and spend 15 minutes rotation between both playing similar tunes.... you will be surprised at how quickly you will be able to swap around. The first time I played the Bass Trumpet, my memory of the swap back to trumpet was the same as you, it felt like trying to get my lips into the end of a biro. It does get better quickly. Keep us informed of your progress.
    Cheers
     
  10. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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