Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Wynton, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Wynton

    Wynton New Friend

    Jul 9, 2005
    I bought my horn used two years ago and have always had problems with the valves. Recently, the 1st and 2nd valves stuck on the way up almost constantly. I got the pistons polished, the entire horn chemically cleaned, and the valves alined a week ago - and they're still sticking. There's also a black substance in the horn that turned up after the cleaning.

    I use Al Cass valve oil and do not apply pressure on the 2nd valve elbow.

    I just bought a Xeno C horn and cannot afford a new Bb.

  2. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    It sounds like you're doing everything right but I suspect that you'll get a variety of advice about which valve oils are best to use.

    I hope your valves are not beyond just switching oils. I stopped using All Cass when I went to equipment with very tight valves. I would prefer not to advocate publicly for a specific brand of oil but others will be happy to share their experiences.


  3. Clarino

    Clarino Mezzo Piano User

    Nov 9, 2003
    Sheffield, England, UK
    Get some olive oil, put the tinyest drop on each valve, rotate the valve inside the casing a bit (to get it all over) then oil as normal. Worked wonders for me.

    See Manny, no need for product placement! :-)
  4. alanbach

    alanbach Pianissimo User

    Dec 10, 2003
    South Wales U.K.
    Sounds to me as if the horn needs a thorough washing right through including the valves .......then oil the valves sparingly. The black substance could be a mixture of dirt and oil (GRUNGE)
  5. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Forte User

    Oct 11, 2004
    Farnham (a place too smal
    Wash thoroughly, apply Spencer Snake Oil (sorry, couldn't resist :oops: ), let your worries become a thing of the past :D
  6. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

    Jan 12, 2005
    Northern New York
    Try Alysin (or Alisyn...can't remember the spelling...Dillon Music probably has it...I hesitate to recommend :x ANOTHER :x dealer). It is a synthetic. When my supply of Al Cass runs out, I'll be switching over to it, too. A couple drops lasts a few weeks. (I hate taking time out to oil valves).

    The black stuff...unsure about that one. Take it back (or take a photo and e-mail it) to the shop and show them. Was there any discoloration before you had the valve job done?[/i]
  7. music matters

    music matters Pianissimo User

    Apr 26, 2004
    ON Canada
    Try Zaja Blue.

    Eclipse have tight tolerences on their valves and it's what they recommend. Interestingly my Eclipse and Schilke work fine with Al Cass or Zaja Blue (requires less oiling with the Zaja and they are quieter) but my Besson Cornet gets stuck valves with the Zaja! My old Yamaha used to get stuck valves with Al Cass but they worked like a dream with Zaja. This leads me to believe that it is horn dependent so as you are using Al Cass give Zaja Blue a go and see if it works. The Black stuff will go away after regular oiling - just oil once a day until it goes.

  8. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    See, Wynton...

    TM to the rescue!

    Hey, by the way... I loved "Standard Time". You were great on that... very innovative. How's Branford? Haven't talked to him in ages.

  9. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN

    I've heard this story before and its one of the reasons I don't do chemical cleaning - it can leave residue in places where it shouldn't be. The process I use is low-pressure steam cleaning (LPSC).

    The advantages of LPSC include:
    1) Your horn doesn't get abused by harsh chemicals
    2) Your horn is not submerged so dirt and grime from one part of the horn doesn't float into another part of the horn
    3) Its quick - only takes about 30 minutes total
    4) It sanitizes
    5) Also, it removes minerals left behind by chemical cleaning
    (I have pics if anyone doubts me)

    If you are interested in LPSC then send me a PM.

    I also would avoid AL Cass and go with Zaja, Pro Oil, Blue Juice or Clark's Viper oil. Also, I would never try to clean the horn or valves while they are in the hron.

    Good luck,

  10. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Mark me up as another of those who have had to switch from Al Cass to something else. I found A.C. was promoting a dark yellow 'varnish' color on (mainly) the 2nd valve piston of all four of my horns (flugel, cornet and 2 Bb, all horns of different makes and both monel and stainless valves). As soon as I went to a synthetic (initally Clark Viper Oil and laterly Zaja Leigh's recommendation again) the problems disappeared... and after a year have not reappeared. Prior to that I was having to "scrub" the varnish off every two weeks!

    Al Cass (and, to be fair, all other "oil"-based oils) can (according to one website I read) can combine with a particular person's body chemistry AND heat (as in "high temperatures") to form this coating. Still, Al Cass IS probably the most commonly sold oil out there but, like anything else, there are exceptions to the rule.

Share This Page