waterkey on 3º valve

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Kang-Ling, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Kang-Ling

    Kang-Ling Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 8, 2009
    I asked this in an other thread, but got no answers:

    does a waterkey on the 3º valve really negatively influence the sound ?

    (for ex. most Martin´s dont have one)

    my Bach also does not have it, and I don´t find it very comfortable
  2. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    All you will find on the topic is opinion, not science.

    That said, IMO, no.
  3. Comeback

    Comeback Forte User

    Jun 22, 2011
    Fort Wayne, IN
    I did not like the third valve slide dump slide that came with my Strad. I replaced it with a Bach part with a lever style water key. A I did so I listened just as closely as I could to the horn alternately with the two parts. I could not detect any difference, nor could my wife, who has pretty good ears for music.
  4. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    A water key on the third valve will certainly affect the sound. Whether this effect is positive or negative is dependent on the particular setup. As an alternate to the dump slide on Bachs I have made "one-piece" slides with a water key, and these seem to play better.
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    Until there is a computer model which can accurately predict trumpet behavior, most everything about trumpet design will be empirical, not scientific. No two people can agree about mouthpiece gap for instance. And how many opinions are there about valve alignment? Let alone bore size, brace design and placement, valve cluster design etc etc. Mouthpieces? Forget it:-?:-?:-?
  6. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    Well, you could do instrumented measurements of a horn's frequency spectrum with and without,
    could measure it's response - just don't think anyone has, haven't looked in a while.
  7. brad361

    brad361 Pianissimo User

    Feb 12, 2008
    I have fairly recently come to believe that in general, making even seemingly insignificant changes to a horn might affect it, and if a horn was built to play as it does with, say, no third slide waterkey, adding one might not be a great idea.
    My '81 Benge is currently undergoing a valve rebuild, and I asked Steve Winans / Doctor Valve about adding a first slide stop screw. His opinion, which I agreed with, is that it might be best not to make that sort of change, assuming I don't want to change how the horn plays and sounds....which I don't.

    My new policy is pretty much leave a horn as it was built, except for repairs/restorations, or "tweaks" like valve alignments, by guys who are real experts.

  8. cyber_shake

    cyber_shake Mezzo Forte User

    Jun 16, 2006
    The 'Nati
    Every horn I've owned had a spit valve or Amado water key until I picked up an Adams A4 earlier this year. I was worried about it at first, thinking I'd be stuck at times with fluid bubbling until I had enough time loosen the safety stop and take of the entire slide ... but it was never once an issue. I'm sure the addition of a hole could cause issues, depending on placement, but am not sure how you would really know without some serious scientific analysis.
  9. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    I've had OEM 3rd valve slide water keys added to two Bach Strads I own, and I've not noticed any difference in their playing characteristics.
  10. J. Jericho

    J. Jericho Fortissimo User

    Mar 16, 2011
    The Amado water key is designed to minimize intrusion into the slide. I can't say adding one to the dump slide on my Stradivarius changed the way the horn plays enough to matter, if at all. It did, however, make it much easier to drain the accumulated moisture, and that's a big plus for me.

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