weird issue with my trumpet, some mouthpieces just wont fit...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by admriker444, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. admriker444

    admriker444 New Friend

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    Jan 4, 2012
    A little about me...

    I played a lot growing up. I was heavily involved with drum corp having finished 5th at the DCI World Championships with the Suncoast Sound in 1986. I went to college on a music scholarship but eventually dropped out (no family support). I went in a different direction and sold my trumpet (bach stradivarius).

    20 years go by, I join a church in the new town my wife and I move too. They need someone who can read music to play bells for christmas eve so I volunteer. The next thing I know Im renting a trumpet to play as well. Soon Im in the praise band and my life with a trumpet has come full circle.

    anyway, about 6 months ago I join this classic rock band (we play old hits like Mustang Sally, Brick House, Ring of Fire, Gimme some Lovin, etc). I went out and bought a Jupiter 600s trumpet from a local store here in Nampa, Idaho called Dorseys. The trumpet comes with a standard 7c. From my old playing days I had always preferred a 5c for symphonic band and a smaller mouthpiece for jazz like a 10 1/2c or d.

    The 5c bach mouthpiece fits just fine as it should. However for some reason the 10 1/2 c doesnt fit properly. It falls all the way in and bottoms out. So without a tight fit, if I turn the trumpet over it falls right out.

    I bring the trumpet and mouthpiece in to Dorseys. None of the sales associates have ever heard of such a thing happening. We tried several mouthpieces on the spot. Anything smaller than a 7c and it fails to fit properly. They even checked the mouthpieces with other trumpets to ensure that bach didnt somehow produce a bad batch.

    So last night I went to Jupiter website and started live chat and presented my problem. This person too had never heard of such a thing before. They promised to get back with me once the supervisor had a chance to return from vacation and look into the matter.

    Clearly there must be some kind of defect with my trumpet...unless Jupiter somehow makes a trumpet that only their mouthpieces fit. and unfortunately Jupiter doesnt sell anything out of the ordinary for mouthpieces. So Im kind of stuck with a mouthpiece that limits my range

    Has anyone ever run across this sort of problem before ? Any suggestions on what I can do besides go by a new trumpet (that was Dorsey music store's suggestion)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  2. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

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    That sounds really strange. There are a number of folks who should know about this on line. Watch for Ivan -who builds horns, and shoot him a PM. Being the penny pincher that I am, if the horn is the problem than I would try and make the store handle a fix or replacement for no cost. I have recently learned that there are different tapers on flugelhorns, but modern trumpets (not talking about the older horns like Holtons which used a mouthpiece with a different sleeve) shouldn't have any problems with modern mouthpieces. I am assuming you have trumpet mouthpieces to trumpet, and one is not a cornet.
     
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Perhaps the mouthpiece receiver on your Jupiter has too small a gap. This would be a manufacturing oops, not an intrinsic fault. Those Jupiters are nice horns.

    The international standard for mouthpiece shanks is a number 1 Morse taper. Any mouthpiece should fit into any horn with a small gap between the end of the mouthpiece and the end of the receiver (beginning of the lead pipe). For most purposes this gap should be around 1/8" (0.125). This has an added advantage that if a mouthpiece is slightly too small, say from the plating wearing off, it will still hold in the receiver.

    There could be a slight difference between all the mouthpieces that you tried at the store. Unfortunately, yours was the only trumpet with too small a gap, so the smaller ones would fall out of your trumpet but not out of the ones in the store.

    Ask your store to measure the gap.... or do it yourself:

    Push the blunt end of a pencil into the receiver until it hits the beginning of the lead pipe - hold this place on the pencil with your thumb nail. Put the mouthpiece into the receiver and hold your thumb nail on the mouthpiece where it enters the receiver. Offer the mouthpiece with your thumb to the pencil with your thumb; there should be around 1/8" difference.

    It is pretty simple for a tech to increase the gap.

    Keep us posted.
     
  4. johnande

    johnande Pianissimo User

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    Jun 3, 2009
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    Interesting problem......You can also use calipers to measure the outside diameter of your Bach 5C and your 10 1/2C mpcs to determine where differences exist. If the external measurements are the same on both, they obviously would fit the same way in the receiver. Your comment that "Anything smaller than a 7c .... fails to fit properly" implies that mpcs with smaller rim size and/or cup depth tend to not fit properly. Although there have been some issues with inconsistent rim/depth sizing of Bach mpcs, I am not aware of any significant differences in the taper or other external measures of Bach trumpet mpcs. Were the "smaller" mpcs you tried all Bach brand, some other brand or a mix of brands? Like many trumpet players, I have a drawer full of mpcs including many different brands and have yet to find any modern mpcs that do not fit virtually all of my horns. Is it possible that your Bach 5C and 7C mpcs (the ones that fit) have external shank dimensions that are larger than the "standard" taper as described above by Ivan????? Keep us posted..... JA
     
  5. CuriousMe

    CuriousMe New Friend

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    Jan 2, 2012
    New York
    Sorry, I don't know anything about the issue. I just wanted say how much I enjoyed Suncoast back in the day (I was in Cadets from '86 - '90). Your line was amazing! At the end of my time with Cadets, Mr. Frank Williams came and worked with us. It helped me to understand why your lines were always so good!

    Anyway, I hope you get your problem with your horn sorted out.

    Peace,
    CuriousMe
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  6. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

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    Sounds like the inside diameter of the mouthpiece receiver is a bit too large....why is this....I dunno.
    The seller could offer to take it back for exchange. I really like the Jupiter 1000, having had both the 600 and 1000. They have an even better 1600, but it's costly. I played " Ring of Fire " for a radio station in Memphis about 10 years ago....on a Jupiter 600 !
     
  7. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

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    Okay, this is kinda like the OP's problem, but not quite. I was hoping I wont have to start a new thread for this.

    On my Yamaha 6340ST, my mouthpiece will go in fine and all. But when I put some pressure on it when playing it will jump farther into the receiver. I have it to where I twist my mouthpiece into the trumpet really far and it is fine. But when I go to take it out it is hard and almost stuck. It is the receiver that says Yamaha on it and it looks like if I put to much pressure on it it might split. This is not what I want, I can put some pics up. Or start a new thread if needed.
    I was thinking about trying out Ivans cool new thing on his website, but this isnt a repair problem.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    This happened to me with a Bach many years ago. I just took a file the the bottom of the mouthpiece shank and shortened the mouthpiece the 1/8th of an inch.

    Every once in a while I see this with rotary trumpets too. Whether we adjust the horn or mouthpiece is based on the value of the horn. My standard Bb rotary (Heckel 1938) is this way with any modern mouthpiece. Dave Monette made me my standard mouthpiece with a modified shank.
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Oh yes it is!

    Have a look at the shank of your mouthpiece. Is it dented? Or out of round? This will cause that problem.

    Does it occur with other mouthpieces? In which case the receiver is distorted or dirty.
     
  10. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

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    My mouthpieces are fine, all round and in great condition other than some insertion marks. This happens with all of my mouthpieces, Bach 3C, 5C, 10 1/2C, Yamaha 14a4a, 11b4. The receiver is clean too, it was ultrasonically cleaned about 2 weeks ago and had this problem before and after the cleaning. There is no dirt or other debris in the receiver, I brushed it out.
     

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