Well I have a new to me project horn on the way!!!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I picked up a 1970's Getzen 300 Series for $32.50 of Ebay. The only thing wrong with it is the crumbled bell. The valves looked good inthe Photo's and the rest of the trumpet looked like it has seen plenty of use but was other wise taken care of so the slides look to be free of dents. It has the old style water key's not the Armando style we are used to seeing today on the 390/490 series etc..... It has nickle silver bolster on all the tuneing slides. So I am going to send it out to get a new bell. After the new bell I will have it refinished in silver. I am not planing on switching out the lead pipe or doing anything fancy like rever leadpipe etc...... I am thinking this will make a great gift for my son latter on when he has out grown the Holt 602 he is playing on now. THe best part is that an old trumpet that would other wise have been used as scrap metal at the local recycleing center or parted out is going to get a new lease on life.

    When I get it done I am going to find someone that can test it out and maybe post a recording of it. I am a hack at best and would prefer to have someone competent test it out and give you their opinion. I was pokeing fun at a guy on here the other day that is in a band in Kalamazoo Michigan. While that is a 2:30 drive from me it would be cool to get him to play it since he is a professional musican and since he has plenty of high end trumpet's to compare it too. My opinion would not count for much since I am not a professional and I have a sever bias. I would love it if we could post a recording of it so the rest of you could hear it!

    Truthfully what I would love would be to get a large assortment of trumpet's that people think sound great from Olds Ambasador's to Mt Vernon Bach Strad's and everything in between. Then have one person play a few bar's of say three different styles of music say Jazz,Classical and Big Band into a digatal audio spectrum analyzer and capture the audio and it's foot print onthe analyzer. Then post all the results so we could see what is really going on and what instruments produce the various sounds that different musicians are after with no industry bias!!!

    If their is one thing I hate it is opinions that cannot be backed up with objective measurements. I am not blameing anyone becuase this is just the nature of things but I think that it is time for a change. Instead of blindly towing the industry propaganda line we need a objective and repeatable way of evaluateing instruments in addition to what a reviewer has to say. I am not saying that the human being listening to the sound is not as important as the reading from the machine rather I am saying we need to have more then a person take on what he heard since we can not be in the room with him to hear what he is hearing!

    When I make a statement about which motor oil protected my engine better I can show my "Used oil analysis" report which is done in a labratory under controlled conditions and is measureing parts per million of various wear metals that are int he oil and the ph of the oil and any associated solids left in the oil. This is kind of what we need in this industry if we as the musicians want to be in controll of what we purchase and why? Right now it is all marketing and word of mouth but really how many of use get a chance to play a Taylor,Bach Strad,Eclipse,Jupiter Tribune, Blessing Artist,Getzen's custom line, Vax line, Yamaha Xeno etc.......... Spectrum analyzer's are built into most recording software so even a person with a amature home recording setup could do this if they had access to the trumpet's. I have RF Spectrum analyzer's but that will not do this forum any good but they are a great tool for doing diagnostic work.

    I am sure some trumpet major at some university has already done this but has not published their findings. So if someone knows someone that has done this do try to get them to share. The problem as I see it is that no one want's to share what they know because it would cost them business.
    :play:
     
  2. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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  3. nplotts1

    nplotts1 Fortissimo User

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    not sure if you knew this already, but the 300 series is a student model. It a really good horn, imo, to start on; however, it is no Yamaha Xeno, or Olds Ambassador. I may have a slight bias, since this is the horn I used to learn how to play, and the fact that I never did like any Bach horn I have played on, even before I knew what to look at in a horn.
     
  4. Bill McCloskey

    Bill McCloskey Piano User

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    Apr 22, 2007
    Because of the nature of the ways trumpets are made, I don't think your wish for objective analysis is possible: every horn from the same manufacturer is going to be slightly different. It also won't tell you how the horn plays. The only way to tell if a horn is any good is to play it.
     
  5. BrassOnLine

    BrassOnLine Piano User

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    You could use the BIAS program (IWK Messtechnik) which is the most reliable program to design trumpets.
    Best wishes !!!
     
  6. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2008
    I've read through your numerous posts to try to see your overall point, but it's really difficult to understand where you're coming from.

    At first you seemed to be bashing the trumpet playing community because none of us do repair or modification work on our horns. Your assumption seems to be that all trumpets are equal, and we should all have the basic skills and tools necessary to fine tune and/or fix them.(For what it's worth, I'm a good trumpet player, but I make a living in the field of Accounting, so I do not have the skills for trumpet repair. I have 1 Bb trumpet that I purchased over 20 years ago and it works well for me in all situations, so I have no need or desire to spend the time or money needed to be a horn builder).

    Now you tell us that you bought an old student horn off of e-bay and you'r esending it out to have a new bell put on?? What happened to doing it yourself? Wasn't that your whole point?

    Next, after you have the bell put on the old Getzen, you propose that it will be the equal of any other professional horn out there?? You're just wrong. You lack the skill necessary as both a trumpet player and a trumpet repairman/designer to know what you're talking about.

    I was in a horn shop last month (Dillon's) and I spent an hour playing different horns. The response, open-ness, tone quality, depth, etc., etc., between these professional horns was very different. That's because they were designed specifically by professionals to deliver a particular response. Throw a student horn in there and it would have sounded like a toy. Could I play the same notes and songs on a student horn? Yes. But the sound delivered would have paled in comparison.

    Play a piece of music through a Bose speaker system and then play the same thing through a pair of cheap speakers from Wal Mart and see what happens.
     
  7. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    Well, Lovevixen; your proposal of using a machine to empirically determine the subjective quality of the musical sounds produced by 'ONE' musician, playing several horns is greatly flawed. Music is a form of beauty and, beauty is in the eye,( ear ), of the beholder. We all have differeing tastes in music. What one trumpeter will thrill over, is just errant racket to another. On that same track, any instrument can be played differently by any number of artists. Each of them telling the instrument to do slightly different things. Each of these 'artists' displaying his/her personal musical taste, even if the self same chart is being used by the various musicians. I would propose that a better method would be to assemble a panel of top shelf musicians of all of the various genre to listen as a group to the playing of a single spectacular trumpeter of the same various types of music represented by the subject panel. This will give an idea as to the various different strengths and weaknesses of the subjected horns. It will also nearly duplicate the opinions voiced by the members of this forum. Nuff said?


    OLDLOU>>
     
  8. BrassOnLine

    BrassOnLine Piano User

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    That machine exists already, it is called Brass Instrument Analysis system (bias).
    It is a USB device connected to your computer, and it doesn't needs a player, so test is always concrete, not depending on micro-differences from one to other blow of the player. All blows are equal.
    Just five seconds, and the computer will provide a complete analysis of the horn (intonation, acoustical properties...).
    The only "but" is that it cost up to 10.000$
     
  9. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    Really, there's a machine that can test a trumpet! can it tell if the third slide water key is leaking? can it tell the difference between worn valves or a faulty design? can it tell if the sound is warm and resonant or thin, brittle or strident. I'd like to know!
     
  10. BrassOnLine

    BrassOnLine Piano User

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    Unfortunatelly to those who hate computers, YES IT CAN !!!
     

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