What are your thoughts on Light-Heavy trumpets?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Gxman, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

    Jan 21, 2010

    So are you saying with that (or at least the idea of it) is that, the heavier trumpet's intended design whether it achieves it efficiently or not is supposed to get all the wave lengths that go from air-lips vibrating through the mouthpiece out the horn rather than lost/scattered through the movement of the horn itself?

    So rather than sounding more dead, it should be 'more powerful' as more of the sound actually comes out together rather than lost/scattered? - What i mean by that is if I visualize a wave length, or many of them... the intended use of a heavier horn is to keep those lengths 'together' coming out the way they went in from the mouthpiece section rather than coming out the bell in many/which directions?

    So how would that then be different from a more 'focused' (mono) sounding trumpet and the ones that sound more 'stereo' like where the sound is everywhere?

    Maybe I confused 2 aspects here.
  2. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    My lightest horn is a 1942 Olds Super, the heaviest I have played is a Taylor heavy weight, regardless of any perceived differences which for me were small, I know which I prefer to hold to my face in a 4 hour dinner dance gig.

    Regards, Stuart.
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    Unfortunately it is not quite that simple. I can give an example from my own Jaeger range:

    The Jaeger original weighs in at less than a Bach Strad. We had some bells made of 50% thicker (heavier) brass for our Heavyweight model. Although we call it heavyweight, it weighs in at around the same as a Bach Strad. Initially this trumpet played quite poorly; we had to redesign the whole bracing system to get it working acceptably. Now it is a wonderful player; not as intimate as the original, but with more projection. Apparently the modifications to the bell thickness and the bracing have moved some of the sound away from the player and to the audience. But because of the bracing differences this is not an A/B comparison.
  4. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    You said it before I decided to respond. Kudos! Hardware rarely makes a difference until professional proficiency is attained and then it's what you like. When I saw Arturo a few years ago, he had one trumpet and one Flugel. Being a master of both, he delighted us with a palette of color all night. He didn't switch mpc's either!
  5. jengstrom

    jengstrom Pianissimo User

    Oct 17, 2009
    Rochester, NY
    I think of it this way:

    The geometry of the horn controls the standing wave and some of the overtones associated with a given note. Given the same geometry, metals of different thicknesses will have different resonant frequencies, which in turn have different natural harmonic characteristics. The variations in metal thickness interact with the geometry of the horn to produce different sound colors. Because a bell of a different thickness has different natural overtones than a thinner one (ringing; no standing wave), and the nodal points for those overtones are in different locations on the bell than they are on the thinner bell, you may indeed have to move bracing around to allow the desired overtones to speak when excited by the standing wave rather than be dampened.

    My 2 cents.

  6. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008

    Very good point.

    Heavy or light in and of themselves won't make a horn "dead" or bright.

    If OP has the cash for a Monette then I'd recommend calling the shop for a consultation and they will guide you towards what you're looking for.
  7. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Are you talking top of staff G to 1st ledger A, or 4th ledger G to A? If it's the former, my advice is to stop contemplating a $10,000+ trumpet and keep working - the horn isn't going to help you. If it's the latter, I can't help you because I don't have those notes locked myself. I can hit them now and again, but I can't play them in a musical context.
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    First let me say, I have a thick head, but I believe my sound is light, airy and romantic.
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    So, to follow up to my post above, I just went through some of your posts and watched a video of you playing a scale.

    You've come from playing guitar, and with a son who also plays guitar, and having known a lot of guitar players over the years, I know a lot of guys who chase tone by throwing money at gear. (to be fair, my son has fantastic guitar tone - always has, but he still loves getting new guitars! LOL!) In your posting I see that you've done a similar thing with your trumpet efforts. If that video from January this year is an indication, my suggestion to you would be to put a moratorium on buying anything further for a while - you simply don't need it, and based on the video, your chops are likely not developed enough to know the difference unless something borderline miraculous happened with your embouchure development.

    If the video is any indication and that miracle did not occur, we're talking about top of staff G to first ledger A, right? Gear is not going to help you. I was playing Cs above that in 7th grade in my 3rd year of playing on a battered tank-like King student model cornet, and an expensive horn likely wouldn't have helped me. What will help you is a lot more steady, systematic practice in the practice room doing exactly what your teacher instructs you to do.
    tobylou8 likes this.
  10. rettepnoj

    rettepnoj Fortissimo User

    Feb 22, 2009
    I just switched from a Monette Ajna II to a Monette XLT! Both horn has the same qualities expected from the maker, but they are like two different worlds to play. The Ajna II was very heavy and thick. The sound was very focused and big, full of overtones but never bright! The XLT, wich is lighter than a Strad, is also focused, but not so much overtones, and it really has some edge. I don't know for sure, but I think they change the bore too with the weight. I could make the XLT's second valve slide fit in the Ajna's second valve slide, and it wasn't even a tight fit :-)

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