what does it mean to bottom out

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by songbook, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. songbook

    songbook Piano User

    Apr 25, 2010
    I hear so much about bottoming out . I was wondering just what it was, and what causes it.
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    If it's what I think you're talking about, fatigue coupled with a shallow mpc cup cause it. Embouchure starts to "fall apart" and touches the cup and vibration stops and so does the sound. That's why some folks don't like shallow cups. The cup doesn't always have to be shallow, just the players chops weak.
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Tobylou is on the right track, but in my experience I've also found such occurs in the deepest cups and I can blame it on excess mouthpiece pressure (elbow or not) forcing the lips inside the cup and shutting off the lips ability to vibrate, thus "bottoming" may be a misnomer, as the lips don't have to touch the bottom of the cup, closing the mouthpiece throat, ... it's more like the lips become clamped shut stopping the air stream. Thus, the optimum is develop strong lips to overcome the potential of this happening. Too, it goes to my "axiom" of not needing more lip pressure on the mouthpiece than is required for an air seal.
  4. mike ansberry

    mike ansberry Forte User

    Dec 30, 2003
    Clarksville, Tennessee, U
    It is when the chops touch the bottom of the cup and stop vibrating. I have not experienced the "clamping shut" of the lips. I don't believe it necessarily has anything to do with weak chops. I can play two 90 minute sets back to back without running out of gas in a funk band. But I can't play a 14A4A at all. Not when I'm fresh, or when I'm warm.
  5. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

    Jul 18, 2006
    Casper, WY
    Nor can I, Mike.
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    make that unanimous --- cause 3 is a crowd -- I'm with you guys on this one!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
  7. BinaryHulledIon

    BinaryHulledIon Piano User

    Nov 23, 2012
    Spartanburg, SC
    Been using a 14A4a solidly since my comeback. I probably played for 2 or 3 hours last night as I had my dad over before they head back to Dallas without a problem. And I'm not exactly thin-lipped.

    Sucks today though. My apartment gets really dry, and I developed a split lip through the night. Can't play a lick, with the 14A or the 3C.
  8. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Whatever causes the air stream to stop is either a plug or a clamp, assuming the air supply has not simply been turned off. IMO that's common sense. Yes, I agree it isn't necessarily weak chops, but stronger chops lessen the occurence. I attribute most of the problem to excess pressure between the lips and the mouthpiece. Another tack is that when the lips protrude into the cup of the mouthpiece it alters the assuredness of tonation for which the mouthpiece cup was designed. So, you don't feel the "clamp", then your lips are forming the "plug".

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