What impact does Bore really have ?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Masterwannabe, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    "good" is subjective, but for less than $800 you'll likely need to look for a used horn.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    All points are wrong.
    1) The air that goes through a trumpet is based on the efficiency designed into it. Bore size does not determine efficiency, the mouthpiece, leadpipe and bell flare do
    2) If a horn is more free blowing, it is LESS efficient and not as loud
    3) blatty sound when playing loud comes from lack of control of the lips, not the bore of the horn
    4) large bore horns are very popular and cost no more than the ML variations

    What a larger bore PRIMARILY is is a marketing gag. Like cubic inches in automobile motors, it is a number that is insignificant whithout knowing the other parameters.

    If we look at how a trumpet works, which is not a megaphone, our pulsating lips in a mouthpiece get a standing wave in the trumpet started (wikipedia that if you don't know what it is). When we have a wave moving, more air in the horn due to more volume will dampen the high frequencies more. If bore were the only factor, it would lead to a darker sound. And in fact with Bach instruments, the large bore with similar bell and leadpipe sounds darker. The darkest Bach horn however is the Vindabona, which is a medium bore instrument. This shows that the other factors play a larger role.

    If we look at the large bore Benge or Callichio or even certain Schilke instruments, DARK is the last thing that comes to mind. The Monette instruments are also pretty large bore and I also would not describe the sound as "dark", more like brilliant!

    Free blowing horns are not so based on the bore, even if the ad text implies this. What we sense as "free blowing" is a psychological effect and occurs when the bell radiates sound towards the player. This happens when the bell is thinner or not braced as heavily.

    All that being said, the large bore myth does come from somewhere. Customers EXPECT a large bore instrument to have a "FAT" sound, so the designer places the bracing and chooses the bell material and thickness as well as the leadpipe to fill those wishes.

    So to answer the question "What impact does Bore really have ?". It has an impact on the expectations of the customer. In the case of Bach, all else being equal, the designers have built a darker, less efficient sound in those horns, but NOT freer blowing. In the case of Schilke, you have your choice: large bore can be everything from dark to scream. With Benge and Callichio, a fat but brilliant sound is available in all bore sizes.

    As far as marching band goes, I would normally pick the most efficient horn I could find to make my life easier. If I were to buy a horn today for that purpose it would be the ML Yamaha 6335 in plain jane yellow brass.

    Facet, don't talk about the numbers unless you have spent quite a bit of time working on design. Buy a horn for the way it plays. Play everything that you can get your hands on, good and bad. Take notes. Nothing replaces experience!
     
  3. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    This is from eHow:
    Understand that a small-bore trumpet may be easier to blow, but the sound produced can be "thin," "crisp" or "shallow." A good tone should be "free," "round" and "clear" with an overtone presence. Small-bore instruments have a very "sharp edge" or "focus." Evaluate both types.

    As for me, I primarily play an MF Horn, Bach strad 37, and a 1953 Martin Committee.
    They all play different and to say that bore size is the determining factor in the different sounds seems a little narrow sighted on my part. There's a lot more to a trumpet (and mouthpiece) than bore size.
    I fine the MF Horn has a big open sound, I find the Bach has more of a classical sound, I find the Martin to have a darker sound. How much of this is psychological? Probably alot!!! But I don't mind, the voices in my head say it OK.
     
  4. graysono

    graysono Mezzo Forte User

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    Oh man, Schwab is dead on: I forgot to mention lead pipe taper (see Lawler website for some verbiage on that) and bell flare. My Stomvi Forte with their #27 bell which is 5.25 in vis-a-vis my LA OLDS Ambassador LA with 45/8 in bell both play quite differently. I suspect the lead pipes are different while I know that the bores are the same in each case.
     
  5. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    This thread delivers.
     
  6. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    My own experience:

    Larger bores require more air and you CAN tell the difference.

    In college I went from a Benge CG Model with .468 bore down to my ML bore Bach Strad that I still play today. After playing this for a time, I felt I had more control and could play longer classical passages with a little more ease. As time went on, though, I began to miss some of the fat, large sounds I could get out of the .468 C.G Benge.

    There is a difference, but it's a preference. Probably why many pro players can't stick with just one horn.
     
  7. trumpmac

    trumpmac Pianissimo User

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    All in your head RD
     
  8. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    trumpmac:

    Maybe that's why I never became a trumpet virtuoso? Or is that all in my head, too?

    lol
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    rbdeli,
    you went from a Benge to a Bach. It could have been a Bach large bore, it still would have had much more apparent "resistance" than the Benge. That has mostly to do with the thicker bell and bracing.

    The bore is not the issue here.
     
  10. bobharry0

    bobharry0 New Friend

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    A LARGE BORE IS NICE. I own two Selmer # 25 470 bores A Schilke x4, a Benge 468,A Holton 305 banana 485 bore Each has a different sound It is the mouthpiece that makes a big difference and how the player holds and corrects their lips that makes the perfect sound. Heavy weight and magnum deep mouthpieces are WRONG. I am a above double high C player in tune or else. In playing with other trumpet players someone always tells me that i play sharp. I reply "no my friend ,you are playing very flat". It is better to practice half hour correctly than three hours a day wrong.,
     

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