What impact does Bore really have ?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Masterwannabe, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    You brag about your abilities, but the bores have nothing to do with those. Each horn is different on so many levels, that you can't pinpoint the bore as being the thing that gives the horn the characteristic it has. There are so many more important factors as discussed earlier in the thread.
    Weighted MPs aren't wrong, they are just another tool to use. Range doesn't prove that a setup is wrong.

    I hope i understood your post correctly...it is so jumbled it is hard to decipher.
     
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    A typical rotary-valve trumpet can be considered "small," but the sound is "'free,' 'round' and 'clear.'" :dontknow:
     
  3. mchs3d

    mchs3d Mezzo Forte User

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    I traded in My Bach 72 Large bore for a ML bore horn. The feel was just too little resistance in the upper register. I'm not sure if it was the bore size, or something else?
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Bore size does NOT determine anything. In the case of Bach, the valve block on the ML and L horns is even the same!

    Manufacturers build horns to meet expectations. If the expectation is "free blowing" associated with L bores, then they pick the leadpipe and bell to do exactly that.

    The resistance that really counts is not that in the horn, rather that in our brains to keep us from believing myths and lies. Once we are truly neutral in our view, we see how useless the bore discussion is. Free blowing just means waste more air for the same job. Efficient means less air for the same job. The right horn means that the air moves at a rate that keeps the player from suffocating, but still allows for long phrases.

    Instead of getting hung up on practice room symptoms, the discussion should be musical in nature. Free blowing does not mean easier to play. Once your chops are together, the bore is insignificant. Your chops determine how well things work.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Bore size does NOT determine anything. In the case of Bach, the valve block on the ML and L horns is even the same!

    Manufacturers build horns to meet expectations. If the expectation is "free blowing" associated with L bores, then they pick the leadpipe and bell to do exactly that.

    The resistance that really counts is not that in the horn, rather that in our brains to keep us from believing myths and lies. Once we are truly neutral in our view, we see how useless the bore discussion is. Free blowing just means waste more air for the same job. Efficient means less air for the same job. The right horn means that the air moves at a rate that keeps the player from suffocating, but still allows for long phrases.

    Instead of getting hung up on practice room symptoms, the discussion should be musical in nature. Free blowing does not mean easier to play. Once your chops are together, the bore is insignificant. Your chops determine how well things work.
     
  6. mchs3d

    mchs3d Mezzo Forte User

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    So... back to the original question, then. What impact does bore actually make? It obviously makes some difference. Otherwise, why not make trumpets with .200" bores? Or .500"? Some trumpets are so massive they are almost like trombones. You can say that bore size doesn't make a difference, in theory I guess. But to tell you the truth, many of us very well can feel a difference between the same horns ML and L. Why do so many professionals play ML Bach B-flats and L Bach Cs?
     
  7. jason_boddie

    jason_boddie Piano User

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    great thread.

    I contribute all my mistakes to the bore of my horn. Either that, or I just scowl and look at the guy next to me......:)
     
  8. jason_boddie

    jason_boddie Piano User

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    great thread.

    I contribute all my mistakes to the bore of my horn. Either that, or I just scowl and look at the guy next to me......:)
     
  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    rowuk sez:
    Bore size does NOT determine anything. In the case of Bach, the valve block on the ML and L horns is even the same!

    Manufacturers build horns to meet expectations. If the expectation is "free blowing" associated with L bores, then they pick the leadpipe and bell to do exactly that.

    The resistance that really counts is not that in the horn, rather that in our brains to keep us from believing myths and lies. Once we are truly neutral in our view, we see how useless the bore discussion is. Free blowing just means waste more air for the same job. Efficient means less air for the same job. The right horn means that the air moves at a rate that keeps the player from suffocating, but still allows for long phrases.

    Instead of getting hung up on practice room symptoms, the discussion should be musical in nature. Free blowing does not mean easier to play. Once your chops are together, the bore is insignificant. Your chops determine how well things work.
    --------------
    I don't disagree with you one bit. However, we need to come up with a "term" that describes the characteristics people associate with "bore size" but not call it bore size since bore size is a incorrect term.
    Maybe a way would be to come up with two extremes like:
    loose and tight
    fat and thin
    rich and empoverished
    low calorie and decedent
    jennifer Anisten and Maude
     
  10. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    I believe this is less about resistance from bore size than from other areas of the horn / the player. I've played a number of Wild Things with their .470 bores and they play just like ML Bachs: easy peasea. My ST 301 Holton .468 with it's large leadpipe and bell is a bear and the resistance, for me, has to come from the mpc or simply from my chops, which is really where it belongs. I look for a blow, not a bore. Try putting a CG Personal mpc with it's 21 throat on a .438 Conn 22B and see how "freeblowing" it is. It is.

    ed
     

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