What is intonation?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rowuk, May 10, 2011.

  1. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

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    Agreed. I was talking about alternate fingerings on the staff and fingering combinations that are easier to play in fast runs. However, the A one ledger line above is often high and sounds better with some slide or with only 3rd valve on short notes. Arban has plenty of alternate fingerings, even in the musical pieces.

    As far as the upper register goes, it's not my territory. Above high C I repeat the same fingerings as above middle C and it works suprisingly well on good days. I can sometimes go up to high F like that, and it's in tune (well ,seems to be anyway). Needless to say, I don't own these notes. Not that I'm that possessive: I don't need to own them, I just want to play with them. I'd gladly use someone else's notes, but they don't like to share...
    Some day perhaps

    As far as tuning with others, resultant tones are definitely the way to go. Plus it's really kinda fun to do.
     
  2. BruceGrain

    BruceGrain New Friend

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    I was asking one of the local experts about bying an olds horn or one of the older types and he suggested that the older horns lacked intonation. I knodded wisely and wondered what he was talking ablut. Do older horns lack intonation in comparison to the modern horns?
     
  3. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Some are good and some are not.
    It's not because of being old.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Older horns do not "lack" intonation. Throughout history there have been good and bad horns. Even today, there are enough trumpets that severely limit the player.

    It is safe to say that in the time before tuneable slides were in fashion on the first and third slides, the first slide was a bit longer to help with the low C and C# without hurting the F, Bb or D too much. That is part of the reason why alternate fingerings also were necessary.

    You have to play each horn before judging. My 1938 Heckel is every bit as "in tune" as my 2007 Monette.
     
  5. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    I can't give the technical explaination but I believe the tone of the intrument changes when I use false fingerings ... as far resonance goes the less valves the better .. for me.
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Related to the specific brand, Olds, the horns prior to the mid to late 70's were actually the better quality horns.
     
  7. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I agree 100%
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Not the tone, but the intonation changes, and this is why we use the false fingering. In so doing are changing only a fraction of the length the air travels, through the same metal alloy, so tone should not be affected, the intonation will be affected. If the tone is actually changing, than this may be more behavioral related by lipping down to assist the use of the false fingering. That would truly change a tone.
     
  9. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Just as an experiment, go into a large concert hall and play a passage with a bunch of A's just over the staff. Try it with 1&2 and then again with just 3. Forget about tuning and just listen to how the note sounds. You should hear a difference.

    If the passage is fast, the third valve will make a big difference.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If we accept the fact that EVERYTHING can make a difference, then we can agree that false fingerings cause us to play on a different partial. The partial represents the division of the wavelength in the horn. Pressure nodes will occur at different locations - especially in the valve cluster. There we have mass and bracing differences. The net result: the sound is many times different.

    My experience: the valve combination with the best intonation will sound the most secure to the audience as well as cause less train wrecks.
     

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