What is more rewarding to play classical or jazz?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by beginner, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    Gary, I'm sorry I offended you... but I find no art in playing a long string of eighth notes with no melody. It's technically proficient.

    It is, in my view, not music.

    If you can make money playing such shit, then good for you.

    I won't ever pay for it.

    Just play MUSIC, that's all I ask. Don't expect me to cheer for this SHIT.

    Get it?

    Now go condescend on someone else, I'm not in the mood.

  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Wow Tom, you just sent an example of the definition of condescending.

    con•de•scend•ing (k n d -s n d ng)
    Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude:

    Quoting from Tom's original posts: "Excuse me, but that's just crap. I'm sorry I offend you who play that style, but it's just crap. I have no respect for that at all." "I call it masturbation..."

    As delivered by the King of Condescending... Thank you Tom for educating all of us readers on TM.

    If you are looking for calling the technique I use, it's called sarcasm. And I believe I can use this editorial technique without stooping to the level of vulgarity that editors of Condescending posting like to use. So continue to submit more condescending examples as I choose not to carry this conversation further.
    kingtrumpet and Cornyandy like this.
  3. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Without addressing that specific solo by the Note trumpeter, one is on shaky ground when one calls an entire genre of music "shit", "crap" and it's performance "masturbation". I don't believe anyone is obligated to enjoy any art form (although I would suggest that the broader one's tastes, the more enriched one's life will be), but just because one does not like something, or doesn't understand it (sometimes synonymous) is hardly rationale to speak of it with contempt.

    Regarding some of the specific criticisms, "I find no art in playing a long string of eighth notes with no melody". Oy! Better rush to your record collection right now, and get rid of all of the Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Corelli, you know - most of what has been written and performed in the Western classical tradition since at least, oh, the 1000s.

    "Just play MUSIC." Duke Ellington (and most certainly others) once wrote, "There are only two kinds of music, good music and bad music." Maybe now would be a good time to chill and give that quote a little thought.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
    gmonady likes this.
  4. amzi

    amzi Forte User

    Feb 18, 2010
    Northern California
    You don't have to like a particular style to appreciate the technique. It is obvious that there are those who do not enjoy listening to a style of improvisation that resembles playing technical exercises. (I intend no offense by using this description, I just couldn't think of anything more appropriate.) I have to admit that I am one of them--my wife, on the other hand loves it. I grew up (musically) listening to and playing a more lyrical style of jazz and improvisation. We need to remember that jazz is a very wide category of music that includes several "styles"--Smooth, West Coast, Cool, various Latin styles, Be Bop, clear back to Swing and Dixieland. Jazz is not monolithic, one may enjoy one segment more than another, but condemning all jazz with a wide brush is unfair.
    So what kind of jazz improvisation do I prefer. Check out this video, the solo starts at 1:14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMWdJpU9t5Q
  5. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Nothing wrong with that, that's for sure. Woody in his Johnny Hodges influenced style and the band in a somewhat Basie-Quincy Jones styled arrangement. If you liked this solo, see if you can find the one that's on the recording by this same band. IMO Chase swings more and he also plays a very tasty turn-around at the end of one of the phrases.
  6. amzi

    amzi Forte User

    Feb 18, 2010
    Northern California
    I like Chase in this band more than I liked him in "Chase", but he's hard to beat regardless of the situation. Somewhere I've got the CD of this album. Anyway, I met Billy Hunt shortly after this was taped, and knew him for a couple of years. He really had an influence on me and my style.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  7. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    Music is music, if it moves somebody if somebody enjoys it if it is played. Whether you like it or not. I don't like every painting I see but can usually appreciate the work that has gone in as another artist. I would have hoped trumpet players are the same. Just because you don't like it you should not dismiss it, especially with such a wide field as Jazz music. I am a limited jazz fan and I am working with a teacher who will do half the lesson on classical repetiore and the other half with backing track which we improvise against. To be fair I'm not sure which half I prefer.

    What really annoys me is when someone is on an open forum and feels the need to resort to scatalogical and psuedo sexual referances to make a point.

    I find some jazz unaproachable and I do believe that (at certain level) there is a similar sort of kidology going on as there is with fine wine and in the theatre (modern opera for example can be just as unaproachable atonal and baffling as hard core progressive jazz and yet it is hailed by those in the know as genius)
  8. BachStrad1

    BachStrad1 Pianissimo User

    Apr 9, 2012
    Kalamazoo MI
    Wow. Time to step back and take a deep breath....and what comes out of this is that appreciation for any form of art comes down to personal opinion and cannot be dictated. That being said, choice of what type of music to play is also personal. What Comeback said about foundations is important. A foundation is what you build on top of. If your foundation is poor, anything you build on top of it will not stand up. So my advice is to not worry about what kind of music you wish to concentrate on and simply concentrate on music and the basic pedagogy of playing the instrument. With a strong foundation, you will be able to play any style of music well.
  9. Lawler Bb

    Lawler Bb Piano User

    Oct 25, 2003
    Milwaukee, WI
    I have no problem hearing and identifying the melody the trumpet soloist plays, which is his own stamp on the melody of Caravan. I completely agree with Gmonady, your last post is loaded for bear. If you aren't able to understand the communication from a particular musician/soloist/whatever, that's totally fine. Happens to all of us. But, immediately declaring it excrement and stating that it isn't music is absurd. What is that trumpet soloist doing that's different from Harry James, Maynard Ferguson, Lee Loughnane, or anyone else that improvises?
  10. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    to play either ---- and to PLAY IT WELL!!!

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