What is more rewarding to play classical or jazz?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by beginner, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    That would be one heck of a philosophical debate when does improvisation become unorriginal pasting of licks? Or for classical music when does pastiche and parody (I'm thinking Sullivan's admited use of a "Verdi Feel" in some of the comic operas) become plagiarism.

    I am interested in this debate. If I can give a potted history during my music GCSE course I had to "do some composition" with my classical leanings my terror was "Oh **** I've got to write a symphyony" Between the ages of 14 and 16 I struggled and with a few days to go I threw out a ditty based on a Tolkien poem.

    I hadn't noticed but I even sang it wrong on the recording and made it sound for about 3 bars like "Puff the Magic Dragon" Upshot I was accused of plagiarism in my exams threatened that all of my results would be voided (With more than half my papers still to sit). I had a near breakdown and took all of the rest of my exams on tranquilisers.

    So you can understand how I feel when I watch "Les Mis" and hear "The Humming Chorus" I'm not accusing the composers of any wrong doing but I woud be interested in where the line should be drawn.

    (Many Apologisings for hijack of the thread)
  2. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    A vexing question Andy, we listen to a lot of music and I am sure subconciously we incorperate portions of things we have heard before in our improvising, there is only a limited no of notes, intervals and progressions we can use and most of them have been used before, copyright is a minefield, it can be ruthlessly persued when money is involved, the recent court case involving the Australian Band "Men at Work" where the plaintiff claimed the band used 2 bars of a 1930s song they held the copyright for, the Judge found in favor of the plaintiff.

    Years ago I was listening to a CPE Bach Horn sonata on the radio while driving to work, I thought it sounded very familiar, our orchestra had played Leroy Anderson's "The Typewriter" a couple of weeks before.

    Regards, Stuart.
  3. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

    May 14, 2011
    Hawaian homey
    Andrew. Your mistake was in not taking the pharmaceuticals earlier in your musical course of study. :evil:
  4. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    It is no surprise to me to find excerpted melodies of many public domain classics now re-arranged in copyrighted popular songs. The prolific output of "tin-pan alley" is renown for such. In my lifetime, I'm familiar with the Elvis Presley renditions of Love Me Tender and Violet that take the melody from the 1861 song Aura Lea by George Poulton with words by W.W. Fostick. Another is Alexander Borodin's Polovetsian Dance from Prince Igor that became Stranger in Paradise in the Broadway production of Kismet.

    Well, to my way of thinking, it is invariable that someone will win the lottery selection of 61 notes of the short 3 octave keyboard and match a melody that has already been composed by someone at sometime. The determination whether such plagiarism or not is not my jurisdiction!

    Aha! Tie two quarter notes of the melody to make a half note, and in the harmony flip a riff of 8 improvised 16th notes and the resultant sound changes.
  5. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Many composers stole from or quoted themselves or others. It wasn't until the "Voluntary" (often with the trumpet pipe-whooh-hooh!) that church music followed something other than plainchant. Bach quoted well known hymns in his sacred works, and Handel stole from himself with glee. It has been noted that Charlie Parker played variations in his "Night in Tunisia" break and that for important gigs he copied his own licks from other gigs. I've noted that Don Ellis' solos use many of the same licks on the same tunes.

    Stealing stuff is very common, even if it is one's own.

    My music history teacher said it is OK to borrow if you repay with interest.
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Cornyandy... if you use the Gmonady Ray of Power... you will not have to worry about this stealing stuff any more!
  7. Churchman

    Churchman Mezzo Piano User

    Apr 26, 2012
    I like purple music, and occasionally red music. Does anyone else like their music by colour?
  8. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    I like the answers and it makes my point a struggling 16 year old should never have been accused of plagiarism
  9. Masterwannabe

    Masterwannabe Mezzo Piano User

    Sep 11, 2009
    I much prefer sarcasm over something such as 'tact' as I have had it pointed out to me many times that tact is for those people who are not smart enough to use sarcasm.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  10. rankamateur

    rankamateur Mezzo Forte User

    May 1, 2013
    Merry Ol' England
    This is indeed, an interesting question, and one that brings to mind the much belaboured case of the melody for 'My Sweet Lord' having been nicked from another song. I think I read somewhere that it wasn't intentional, but just 'happened that way', but then there is bound to be crossover at some point - possibly some of the more metaphysical types would like to explain it as evidence of 'Universal Conciousness'; others might just like to call it 'coincidence' yet other a case of 'You lazy thieving git! Think up your own tunes!' :lol:

    It is pretty close: My Sweet Lord vs. He's So Fine - YouTube

    (Father Ted and A Song For Europe anyone?)
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013

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