What laqueur to use?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Cornet1, May 22, 2005.

  1. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    This is my first post here;.....

    What is a suitable type and make of laqueur to use to refinish a trumpet please? I assume modern instruments are finished in epoxy or twin-pack. Could I use the epoxy varnish for finishing cork flooring?

    Thanks for any help, Bob
     
  2. RichN

    RichN Pianissimo User

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    Sep 25, 2004
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    Are you being serious???!

    I'm not quite sure if you're joking or not! If you're not, I can't help with the lacquer types, but having seen all of the trouble that Eclispe go to to get a really good lacquer finish, and all of the equipment that it needs, I wouldn't even attempt to do it myself (and I'm willing to have a go at most things). Getting someone to do it for you would cost a fraction of what you'd spend on equipment and your practice attempts, and unless you're a professional sprayer, I think you'll struggle to get a decent finish.

    You could always use Hammerite. Nobody else would have a horn like it :shock:

    Rich.
     
  3. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    Frankly, this is not the sort of reply that I was hoping for.....

    ".........I'm not quite sure if you're joking or not!...." .......er, why would I be?

    "....unless you're a professional sprayer..." .....No luck there I'm afraid,...just your everyday 'thick idiot'......

    "......I think you'll struggle to get a decent finish..." .....I'm sure you MUST be right!...but then again, maybe not.

    "........You could always use Hammerite....".......Nah! ...the trumpet is not rusty enough!
     
  4. prof5

    prof5 New Friend

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    Mar 4, 2005
    Any quality air-dry lacquer will work. It will not be as durable as the modern epoxy finishes, but it is much easier to handle. Make sure the horn is reasonably warm and the humidity is not too high (read the can!), and you should be fine.

    And, if you make a mistake, air-dry lacquer is fairly easy to remove. This cannot be said of the epoxy finish - if you screw up with it, you'll have a real mess.

    Best wishes on your project, and please follow the cautions on the can. I'd recommend some brands, but I don't know what you have there in the UK.

    Garry

    ps practice on a junker!!!!
     
  5. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    Garry,...thanks for your friendly reply,

    This project has moved on a bit since my first post yesterday,.....I don't actually need a "junker" to practice on as I am planning to try out refinishing on my 'clunker' B&H 400 trumpet which I aquired to practice/try various repair/modification techniques.

    When reasonably proficient, I am hoping to refinish my Besson 'Stratford' which my grandfather gave me new as a small boy 43 years ago.

    After taking advice from an industrial chemist friend this morning, the current plan is to prime using a clear epoxy sealer intended for sports floors and then to use heavy duty clear floor epoxy......these are water carried (I decided the solvent carried variety would be 'a bridge too far') so I will use a modelers air brush/'mini' spray gun to apply.

    At the moment I am unsure about the need to oven and the trumpets will not fit into my simple hardening box containing light bulbs which I use for ovening the enamel on restored classic cameras.

    Any info would be gratefully received...Bob
     
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about what it takes to lacquer brass, I can tell you that the lacquer that is used for wooden musical instruments is usually a nitrocellulose lacquer. I used Deft from a spray can and I got it at Walmart. This was when I made the 6 X 14 maple snare drum that I am currently using as my mainstay snare on my kit. Most of the drum makers seem to love Deft, although there are a few who won't touch it.

    The problem that I see with this kind of lacquer is that to truly get it smooth and glossy, I had to wet sand it using graduated grits of paper from 1000 to 2000 grit (automovite wet/dry sandpaper) and rub it out using a swirl remover. While this is going to work very well for wooden instrumet such as a guitar or drum, I can't imagine how you would do this for trumpet.

    Does anyone else have any info about re-lacquering a horn?
     
  7. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    Patrick,..thanks for your perceptive reply,

    Lacqueuring naked brass is difficult,...in fact, I have never seen any examples which I would call good!...The brass parts on plate cameras are often the worst parts of the renovation so I knew from the start that I would go a different route.

    The matter of 'buffing up' or getting a good gloss has been in my mind as well,...so you are right on target with your observations! When working on ovened enamel painted components I lightly polish using the finest car body polish and this works well in giving an authentic look to parts.

    Of course, a trumpet is a whole other 'ball game'......Regards, Bob
     
  8. prof5

    prof5 New Friend

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    Mar 4, 2005
    Bob,

    While the epoxy you mention may create a nice looking finish, I would be concerned about the effect on the sound of the horn. Even a light coat of lacquer has a marked effect, and the finish you describe will be much thicker, which deadens the resonance of the brass.

    This is the reason raw brass horns have become so popular - there is a difference in sound.

    Sorry to complicate things, but it is something to consider!

    Garry
     
  9. RichN

    RichN Pianissimo User

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    Sep 25, 2004
    UK (Mids)
    My apologies. I wan't meaning to be insulting. I assumed that you were doing this to refinish your pride and joy as a one-off exercise, my point was that if this were the case, my opinion is that you'd get a better result by going to someone experienced who's properly set up for the job.

    Reading the most recent posts however, I get the picture that you're doing this for fun. In that case, best of luck and let us know how you get on!

    Rich.
     
  10. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    Rich,...apology accepted......

    ........Its not exactly a "fun" project,...more an experiment with slightly serious overtones as I want to find out the mehtods and techniques of brass modification and repair and theres nothing like 'hands on' to do this with practical work. Also, I want to refurbish the Besson although it has no real monetary value,.....just sentimental meaning as it is the last link with my family who all died when I was quite young. I don't really play it usually as I have other instruments to use.........Regards, Bob.
     

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