What makes a trumpet better than another?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Hitman0042, Sep 27, 2008.

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  1. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    In my multi case I carry either my King Liberty or my Olds Studio model,( very comparable horns ), my Conn Concert Grand cornet, and my Yamaha flugel. This covers just about everything I have need of in Bb instruments. I have horns in various favorite keys to accomidate most of the charts that I have encountered. Tomorrow evening I will be playing lead in a brass ensemble for a monster hymnsing with my King Liberty trumpet. This entails transposition to concert pitch to play right from the hymnal along with a piano and pipe organ. I chose my King because of its ability to project in the large room, seating over 1,200 people. Transposition to various keys is a much needed ability in todays musical world.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  2. Hitman0042

    Hitman0042 Banned

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    No i i still dont get it. Im talking about sound. I understand the quality, valves etc. The trumpet at the end is all designed the same way. Each valve gets pushed down to meet up with it holes that changes the sound. Yes, we all know that. But what makes quality sound better than my chinease horn than one of your good horns? 'Its a good questions. Because there are horns like $8000 but whats the difference between that one and the $1000. It looks the same. The valves go don the same. The structure is the same??
     
  3. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    sometimes you push down the valve and it doesn't come back up.
    I don't want the sound to change when I press a valve, just the pitch. I don't even want to feel a difference in resistance when I push down a valve.

    I want the trumpet to play in tune. (with itself) I want the trumpet to be versatile. Nice sound for classical and a big bright sound when I play lead.

    I can't get these features with the cheaper trumpets. I'm sure somewhere they're out there, I just haven't found one.
     
  4. Trumpet guy

    Trumpet guy Forte User

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    Mostly the difference between (many) chinese instruments and better quality instruments is the build quality. Some chinese companies will build trumpets with extremely thin metal. This could cause the sound to be too bright but mostly makes the instrument impossible to repair without damaging it further.

    Also quality control comes to mind. The precise shape of the bell taper and flare affects the sound, so does the taper of the mouthpipe and the consistency of diameter through the valves. If you take out the valves and look at the holes inside, there will be some "bumps" where the air column will get smaller and grow again coming out.

    Another important feature is brace placement. If you put different trumpets side by side, the braces will be in slightly different places. The positioning of these braces affects the "physics" of the trumpet and poor placement can negatively affect the sound. Each trumpet has a different optimal brace placement. That's why the good trumpets have their braces soldered on individually (even if the rest of the instrument is mass produced).

    And as, for tuning, the most important is the length of the valve slides. Chinese trumpets don't have their slide lengths measured accurately enough. I know this from my Chinese cornet I got a few months ago as well as several chinese trumpets from other students at the school I go to. Sometimes this isn't a problem because the slides are too short and you can pull them out a little or bend the note down to get in tune. Other times the slide is too long and you have to bend the note up (which is significantly harder for many people I know) and you're screwed with that valve.

    A good trumpet will have the valves designed in a way to reduce this as much as possible (which requires research that factors into the cost of the trumpet). Overall, the cost of making an instrument is proportional to how much effort is/was taken to bring that instrument to reality and the results of that effort.

    Speaking of "$8000 trumpets", the most expensive one I've seen is the NYTC Magnum a $5000. These very expensive trumpets are hand made rather than mass produced, so the labor cost goes in there. Being hand-made by qualified trumpet designers does lend to better quality control.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  5. Hitman0042

    Hitman0042 Banned

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    Umm well yer Australia is a bit more expensive than America. But i see where your getting at now. But when you say tuning. How do you tune your trumpet? I just get mine and blow in it. I didnt think the slides are for tuning i thought they were just there?
     
  6. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    It sounds like the cheep trumpet will work for you for now. Keep practicing and soon it won't.
     
  7. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    The major difference is the quality control and training of the production workers or artisans,( there is a vast difference ), that make the parts, assemble them and then, fine tune that assembly. Artisans are expensive to train and pay for the superlative work that they do. Production workers are just automatons that could not care less, as long as their production numbers are at the manufacturers extremely fast level.


    Remember also, the manufacturers can make superlative quality instruments, once their workers are properly trained and have gained the skills to make a high quality product. Most of the Chinese factories are simply looking at how many units they can jam out the door for an ever more bottom economy atuned buying market. The old saying that you only get what you pay for is still true.


    OLDLOU>>
     
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  8. Trumpet guy

    Trumpet guy Forte User

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    Well when you and another person play together, does it sound in tune? The first thing you have to learn about tuning is to be able to hear when a not is in or out of tune. If two people both play the same note and you can hear beats (or a wavering sound) then the two people are out of tune with each other. When you move the slides out, you lengthen the tubing to make the trumpet flatter, or lower in pitch.When you move the slides in, you shorten the tubing to make the trumpet sharper, or higher in pitch.

    The main tuning slide (the big U-shaped one) is used to tune the G in the staff and the Cs (both below and above the staff), your notes that you don't press valves for. You then tune the other notes with the valve slides (the skinnier U-shaped ones) that correspond to the valves you press. Tune the first and second slides individually and tune the third slide in combination with the second. You will have to pull it out about 1/4 inch or 1/2 cm more when playing with the third valve in combination with the third, but only on the low D and above. The low G under that should be in tune with the third slide at the position as if it were combined with the second valve.

    If you have a well-tuned piano, or an electric piano. You can use that as a reference to set your pitch. If not, tuners are fairly cheap and you can buy them online and have them shipped to you. Korg tuners are pretty accurate and they go for about 20 USD. I don't know how much the shipping will be though.
     
  9. gglassmeyer

    gglassmeyer Piano User

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    In the case you mention here, I think Yamaha started out copying Schilke designs. A falling out between the 2 companies may have caused Yamaha to start developing their own designs. There is also a need for the company to entice you to buy a new horn. My ytr-734 was made in 1970 and I've played it since 1983 and only in 2006 finally bought a new horn (though I still play the old one regularly). They can't generally wait 23 years between sales.
    It's not like a candy bar that gets consumed and quickly replaced, if they still made the ytr-734 today and yours still was in great condition, why buy a new one?
     
  10. Hitman0042

    Hitman0042 Banned

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    ohk i see thanks for the replys. i sorta understand now. So when you go to buy a new trumpet. Do you go into store and take your mouthpiece and just try them all?
     
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