What Next?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrassBandMajor, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Clarkvinmazz

    Clarkvinmazz Forte User

    May 11, 2013
    Oberlin, Ohio
    I'm going to have to disagree with some of this...by no means were all bach and conn cornets were student quality horns. Up until conn moved to Texas, they're cornets were most definitely not student quality. I've played plenty of coprion directors that match or surpass most new horns I've tried. Not to mention all of their professional instruments, like the 9a or 5a, or the connstelations. Same goes for bach. I know for a fact that there are some people on here that would not be too happy to hear someone say that their strad cornets were student grade. There may be a quality control issue, but that doesn't mean many of them were nice pro instruments. As for olds, the ambassador was built not as a student horn, but as a professional quality trumpet for people with a smaller budget. Until they were bought out in the 70s, olds continued this tradition and I've played many of great ambassadors.
  2. Franklin D

    Franklin D Forte User

    May 23, 2009
    The Netherlands
    I don't know anybody who is interested in the horns (at least the trumpets and cornets) Conn made in the 70ties, so we can agree on that. The problem is that you only use one argument, the authority one, to ground your statements. And you use the same argument to others as an argument ad hominem, I mean when I do not agree to your use of the authority argument you disqualify me as being disrespectful to the given authorities. This means that you made a construction that you will always be right (in your opinion).
    I am not a particulary fan of Conn horns, I have a 6H trombone (I think 60ties) that's really a great horn, further a 1948 36A and a 1942 80A and they are good quality, no problems. The 6H was used by a lot of professional jazzplayers, me is told including Frank Rosolino.
    My favorite trumpets are BTW French made, by Henri Selmer, an older B700 large bore tuning bell with red brass bell and a modern Concept TT. Maybe also junk horns in your kind of judgement but I can assure you that they are made with great craftmanship and that they play conform that.
  3. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Well, I've owned dozens of Ambassador instruments, includes my dad's old 1952 trumpet, and a 1953 trumpet I had, plus 2 cornets of similar vintage, and I would not say that they were great horns. Solid student horns, yes. Entry-level pro horns, yes. But back in the 50's, more students than pros were playing them, at least where I was living (Lynn Valley, part of North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada).

    I used to have several student-model Getzen cornets, and all of them were on a par with the best of the Conn and Strad cornets. I had a bunch of old King Liberty cornets and trumpets, too. One trumpet I inherited played in C/B/Bb and A.

    Not one of them, including the top Bach's and Conn's, were in the same league as my Getzen Eterna cornet. Not even close. The only horn I had in my collection that compared, as a player, was an old Besson.

    Respecting people's feelings regarding instruments is a complete waste of time. Lots of guys are very attached to instruments that are often pretty awful.

    I remember reading, a long time ago, about a meeting between Dennis Brain and I think Barry Tuckwell, if my memory is correct. This was in either Metronome or Downbeat magazine (that in itself should tell you what a dinosaur I am). They had heard each other in recordings, and were wondering what the other was playing. After much embarrassed hemming and hawing, each of them produced an old clunker of a horn. Neither was anything special.

    Lots of really old horns had all kinds of technical issues, but the players liked them because somewhere in their idiosyncrasies and issues was something they really liked, and were willing to put up with. Conns especially have been like that over the years. Conn as always been a company to experiment and fiddle with design. Back in the 70's, for example, they were one of the companies that were experimenting with really big bells on trumpets. All of these horns had issues that were a direct result of the accentuated feature in question. The result was like hair cuts and clothing styles- they suited some people, but not most others.
  4. Sterling

    Sterling Mezzo Forte User

    Oct 22, 2007
    Marcellus, NY
    I've played and owned Bach Strad trumpets since 1968. I have never played a bad one. I've played ones that I liked over the others, but never a bad one. I currently own a Sterling Bell 43 bflat, a 229G Large bore C, and a 184L Short model cornet. I'll admit that I was a Bach snob for a large chunk of time but am currently playing a Jupiter 1600i Roger Ingram trumpet and a Conn 10B Victor from 1960. The Conn has a great sound but does not slot as well as the Jupiter. The Jupiter slots like it's reading your mind but the bright sound might not be suited for every type of music.
  5. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    I've just had a revealing experience... had a wonderfully enlightening lesson with Adam Rapa and at the end, handed him my Ganter V8... he looked at it with disdain at first, as it certainly is no Monette Raja... played a few notes, played a few more... played even more, and treated me to more or less a complete solo... and when he put the hooter down, he concluded... "not bad,... not bad at all... really very good... much better than most Bachs and Yamahas... much better intonation... really good... and so light to carry..."
    All the while, he had me thinking: "No, it's not for sale... no, you won't get it... no..."
  6. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
  7. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    When I have enough money set aside, I have oddball horns made for me. Some are experiments, a few are replacements for oddball or rare instruments I had in the past.

    One of the latter was a G alto trombone. You used to see them from time to time, but it has been decades now since I've even heard of one.

    Mine I sold to a collector, who paid a lot of money to have it restored. For a long time I had though it past the point of restoration because it was made of that horrible nickel-silver alloy they used to make. The horn was literally disintegrating, and was patched all over with solder. It would sort of come apart in flakes, like aluminum.

    For his part, he thought he was rescuing some valuable thing from a soul-less cretin (myself) who had no right to such a treasure, and for my part, despite the rough shape it was in, I was sorry to see it go.

    In its heyday it was a gorgeous little horn, and one day I will have a new version made. I have no idea what the G altos were used for, however. They would turn up from time to time, and all of them were 19th century antiques. There was no maker's name on mine, so I have no idea who was making them, and for what purpose.

    An acquaintance has owned a G alto horn for many years, and the speculation is that it was a Kanstul prototype, possibly for D & B use. It's a fine little horn, and no amount of wheedling on my part has inclined him in the least to sell it to me. He uses it as a wall-hanger, probably just to annoy me. That is another horn I'd like replicated.

    For many years, I've wanted to have an Ab mezzo-soprano trumpet made, after the fashion of the contra-alto, with a small Eb-trumpet bell. Just as a curiosity, and just to see how it performs.

    Another experiment I've wanted to try out for many years is an Eb alto trombone, with a contra-alto trumpet-size bell of around 5 1/2", around a .460 bore, played with an Eb alto horn mouthpiece, probably a Schilke 38D. The idea is to replace the standard Bb soprano trombone with something that has more of a trombone sound, in trombone choirs.
  8. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Well, I had a few oddballs made for me as well... a multiple-pitch soprano cornet (short enough to play E natural, with a long adjustable leadpipe for Eb and D, and an additional rotary valve allowing me to go down to D, Db and C. Slides adjustable accordingly. The whole made by Hermann Ganter, using a Yamaha valve block.

    And the other was a four-valve rotary E/Eb/D made by Gerd Dowids, with a trigger for the main tuning slide and using the bell from a C trumpet... BBM knows it well...
  9. gsmonks

    gsmonks Piano User

    Sounds very specialised. What were you aiming for?
  10. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    Never having to transpose again?

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