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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrassBandMajor, Feb 23, 2016.
gsmonks what would be the number 1 Bb long cornet you would say is hands down the best?
Can I post a picture of it?
What, like those old pianos with the keyboard that slides over, so you can play everything in C?
I can only imagine what happens when you hit a key change.
A friend of mine has one of those G bugles. I asked him about transposing. He said, "Oh, I don't really transpose. I just pretend I'm reading bass clef."
I'm leaving the room. My cat just farted.
Hahahaha, strong post.
I've always wanted a trumpet made with 6 valves, like those old riding trombones. The way you play them is that 0 = 1, 1 = 2, 2 = 3, 3 = 4, 4 = 5, 5 = 6, and 6 = 7th position.
I'd hope, given the premium a person is going to pay in order to play a Bach Artisan trumpet, that they aren't like the standard Strads coming off the line these days.
Sterling, I can appreciate your statement on Bachs and never having played a bad one, but they are definitely out there. I think that the Bach Strad, when done right, can be one heck of a trumpet, but I'll stand by what I've said about the blow on the new ones I've tried recently - there's just something about them that I don't like. It takes way too much effort to get the horn to respond, and I suspect that it has something to do with the receiver and leadpipe.
That's exactly what I noticed when I compared my old 1950's 190 Eb to new ones, and why I've hung on to it like grim death for many years. On the new horns, high A is a struggle, Bb is doable, B is a problem, and C is absolutely gut-wrenching and chop-killing. On my old horn, high G on up is open, clear, and not requiring undue extra effort.
I'd never thought of the receiver and the lead-pipe as being problems on the new horns, but in thinking about it, you may well be right. The proof would be in taking one of the new horns and having both receiver and lead-pipe replaced with something really high-end, in order to nail down if that's the problem. It's such a common problem in high-end picc's that there's no reason to assume other horns aren't affected by the same defect.
A friend of mine, a custom mouthpiece maker, once gap-adjusted a mouthpiece for a Strad I was playing. He said that the Bach Strad receiver was notoriously too tight, which resulted in a big gap, and his theory was that Bach did it that way on purpose. The theory was that their biggest demographic for new horn sales is the aspiring HS trumpet player. When they play test a new horn, they typically want to over-blow it, and the big gap makes a horn feel big when you do that. Unfortunately it wrecks you once the honeymoon phase is over, but he further theorized that a good player will learn to overcome it eventually by dialing themselves into the horn with a lot of practice.
What I will say is this - once he turned down the shank of my mouthpiece and dialed in the gap, it immediately changed everything about how that horn played. Range was easier, the horn focused and slotted better, I had far fewer chipped notes and misses on partials, my endurance increased substantially because I wasn't working so hard to play it. It made me a believer. I think that many "bad" Bachs could be drastically improved by swapping out the receiver and/or leadpipe. There was a time a handful of years back where a person could get an old style long receiver that a tech could custom fit to a Strad. For the people who got them, apparently it made a pretty big difference in the response of the horn.
This reminds me of improvements guys make to knock-off's. In the alto trombone world, the Slokar is the most common horn copied, and guys are forever swapping out the lead-pipe of the knock-off's and replacing them with Slokar lead-pipes. In the high-end picc world, guys are forever swapping out the lead-pipes for something better.
I think we have to remember that brass instruments are nothing more than fancy plumbing, that the real difference between junk and high-end is know-how. The straight tubing and valve sections are readily available on-line for any hairless primate to fiddle and experiment with.
The tricky part is and always has been conical tubing, which is the very devil to make. A machine can make precision cylindrical tubing a thousand times better than a hairless primate, but conical tubing is another story entirely.
When you see brass instruments being made, with mandrels and hammers and brazing, and lots of spinning and bashing and thrashing, what's actually being made is anything conical, either bells or tubing.
The real precision stuff especially concerns lead-pipes, which are conical. The best are often cut out of a solid block of brass using a CNC (computer numeric control), aka CNC lathe.
If you look at brasswind patents, a good many have to do with manufacturing processes involved in producing superior conical tubing. That in itself should tell you how difficult it is to make conical tubing.
That's why natural Horns are so damned expensive. They're a right bugger to make.