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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Smrtn, Dec 2, 2014.
Of course a little cat gut and vitamin E ain't so bad either.
So well put and so absolutely true!
This goes for all metaphores like "fast air" and other . . .
Again "arguing" You make very little contribution to the forum other than what is fast becoming a vendetta against Rowuk. The forum yes is open but not (I believe) to personal attacks, name calling and frankly your brand of focused unpleasantness. You are not even couching trumpet talk in harshness all you seem to do is weigh in with things like "I don't like the guy". It is not the sort of thing I want to read on this forum. We can all go at it from time to time and as I have told you before I am not beyond a little harsh talk with Rowuk myself but it is all done with an undertone of respectful agreement to disagree.
I've actually been a part of both threads, and although I read through them, I often don't post directly when it comes to threads that deal with the physics of the embouchure. There are a couple of reasons for that. For one, I think that although there are some general physics rules that have to be considered, I believe that the embouchure is a complicated mechanism, so sometimes I don't think it's nearly as simple as some people want to try to make it. I also think that there is a lot of confusion when it comes to the role of metaphors and visualization, and the actual physical effect that occurs when those things actually work to help a player succeed in whatever improvement they are seeking with their chops. Since I'm not a physicist and I don't truly know the inner workings of how an embouchure ACTUALLY works, the most I'll post to these threads are bits of what I feel are common sense. An example would be my belief that I don't think you can compare how a flute or fife produces sound to how a trumpet produces sound because they are completely different mechanisms.
Msen, I'm curious to know about your experience, and what qualifies you to go toe to toe with Rowuk. Those of us who know who he is know that he's a real player - he makes his living with music by playing and teaching trumpet, and he's been doing both for a long time. Combining that with the kind of no-nonsense, rational way that he posts about our craft, it makes for someone whose observations and thoughts on it I believe can be trusted, regardless of how one might feel about the tone of the delivery.
Two pirates were standing on deck with some free time. One says, "matey, it sure is a fast wind today!", and the other argued, "No it isn't, it's a strong, forceful wind"
And that is why I am confused.
I liked most of your answer Patrick -- in that you(we)(they) don't understand the actual mechanics involved in the embouchure and the aperture in which air flows to vibrate our lips --------------------------------------- however in the "fife/flute" -- the air going across the opposite side of the embouchure hole ends up producing a "standing wave" down the length of the pipe, and different sounds are caused by interruption (finger holes) of that standing wave ------------------ in many ways the "fife/flute" is making sound the same way as a trumpet
and a little salt in them aids in healing ---- yep, it surely does --- ooops, that goes into the other thread on "truisms" -------------- my apologies ((but thanks GM, I appreciate your support))
I hope that helps some people ---- but I am confused about the potential energy of the spring of the mousetrap being transformed to the kinetic energy of the hammer of said mousetrap ----- of course the mousetrap, which inherently has a hold-down bar which is in equilibrium because the torque by the hammer and that by the catch have the same amplitude but opposite directions. ----- it just seems to me that the "better mousetrap" analogy/illustration is not appropriate to the embouchure ---- oh well, what can we say?? --- people didn't like my "fife/flute" analogy either -- and yet, we had a similar principle to the trumpet of "standing waves" that make the sound ---- and of course faster air over the edge of the flute embouchure hole which produced 2 different octaves on the same length of pipe (fife) ------- but this is ok --- people can and do disagree with me --- I can live with that ------ then again maybe its more air and not faster -----mmmmmmm, more air going through the same size hole in the fife --- perhaps it would go faster
On the other hand - here is an excerpt from the Asymmetric mpc website - the mpc was designed by an engineer John Lynch :and its a quote: "What this means for the trumpet player is that as the top lip is vibrating (opening and closing) the bottom lip is pushing up against the top lip and controlling the pitch. The harder the push (the greater the between-lip pressure), the higher the pitch." -----
Most notably he never mentions "the speed of air", but the lip to lip interactions that contribute to higher pitches --- hope this helps everyone
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