What the?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Smrtn, Dec 2, 2014.

  1. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    That is all relative. Inside the plane the pitch would be normal, for an observer outside the plane and in front of it the Doppler effect would change the pitch to a higher one.
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    ...and very quickly, I might add! :D
  3. BigDub

    BigDub Fortissimo User

    Dec 19, 2009
    Hillsborough, NJ
    I guess you didn't see the tongue positioned firmly in the cheek there, VB! sorry for getting it lost in the translation............no worries.
    Now if you play your trumpet into the phone, would the sound travel faster than the speed of sound? (Yes, after it goes into the phone)
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    I did. That gave me a chance to reference the theory of relativity. Thanks for the nice set-up!
  5. robrtx

    robrtx Mezzo Forte User

    May 26, 2012
  6. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    The way I feel it, it's not really possible to play a high note and a low note without changing the aperture. High notes require a smaller aperture.

    I also seriously doubt that the Bernoulli principle is relevant. It states that, as the velocity of a fluid increases, its internal pressure decreases. It comes in handy for generating lift with airfoils but I'm not sure that it affects anything in the production of high notes. What makes high notes is faster vibration of the lips, i.e. the aperture opening and closing more times per second than for low notes. What we feel as players when that happens is also a smaller, or more focused, aperture. What we also feel is a thinner, "faster" airstream through the aperture. A faster airstream through the aperture does not mean that the lungs will empty over a shorter period of time. A river that is 5 ft wide with a current flowing at 20 mph will not empty a lake as quickly as a 50 ft wide river with a current of 5 mph. A float clocked from the shore will be faster with the former (fast stream, low flow) but the gallons per minutes leaving the lake will be way higher with the latter (high flow, slow stream). I believe that we experience that when we play.

    We can keep a high note going for a long time. In fact, for high notes, the limiting factor is that we need the volume in the lungs in order to produce the air pressure needed for faster vibration, and it is the lack of that volume that limits us, not the absolute lack of air, unlike for low notes. We can keep up low notes until lungs are almost totally empty and they still do not make us turn red, because they do not require compression. The tail end of high notes is difficult because the decreasing volume in the lungs forces us to create the necessary pressure higher in the air column, which does not work well and pressurizes the neck too much. There is a narrow, optimal range for longest duration notes; it is where we need a relatively moderate amount of pressure (sustainable until a fairly low volume is left in the lungs) but still have low outflow in terms of volume over time. The best such compromise is where the longest note can be obtained. If we didn't need all that volume to create the pressure in physically tolerable ways, then technically the longest possible note would simply be our highest note, because it is the one produced by the smallest aperture and will have the lowest outflow.

    Of course, once the air exits the aperture, it slows down very quickly. There is so much room beyond the throat of the MP for the modest airflow we produce at any register that neither shank nor leadpipe really affect anything on that front. Their functions relate to the standing wave in the instrument. Of course, that in turn affects the vibration at the aperture, but in an acoustic relationship.

    Well at least, that's the way I see it. Feel free to correct me.
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    Really, Philippe? My playing is stiil pretty c**p just now but even I can run up and down a two octave arpeggio without pushing my lips together to choke down the aperture. It's just a matter of raising and lowering the lung pressure isn't it? Apart from 'firming' the lips enough to stop them blowing out into the cup, I don't feel any other movement.

    In passing, if you (as near as you can manage) free buzz this exercise, you most definitely will have faster air on the high notes and empty your lungs very quickly indeed. Kind of like putting a short circuit between live and neutral. Adding the trumpet turns this on it's head. Now we're putting live and neutral across a transformer winding and things are very, very different. Hey! No power consumption! What's that all about?
  8. BigDub

    BigDub Fortissimo User

    Dec 19, 2009
    Hillsborough, NJ
    Bob, Any time you have trouble sleeping, just give me a buzz. I'm happy to help. No fee.
  9. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    You're both right.

    (Ain't that a kick in the head?)

  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Sounds like an expensive way to get to a Double High C!

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