What's up with F5

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Sethoflagos, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    On the basis that I can usually lip slur the octave C to high C pretty comfortably and in tune, I've been kidding myself maybe that my range is coming on nicely. But there's a fly in the ointment that niggling me. I can get a nicely resonant top of stave E, but then there's a pronounced jump to a quite sharp non-resonant F. The next few notes are similarly sharp, and it's a real struggle to pull them down. I've not been quick to pick up on it as I'm pretty sure that for a while I've been blowing the lower notes sharp to compensate.

    I guess there's probably another of those fundamental issues at the root of it, but a couple of pointers would be much appreciated.

    PS It ain't the trumpet.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If you switch between vintage and new horns, this happens very often. The issue is that the first valve is longer on old instruments to compensate better for low D and E and A. Modern trumpets have shorter, mathematically more perfect first tuning slide length! If we are not blowing centered, an F or Bb would sound dead.
     
  3. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    Why do you call it F5?
     
  4. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    I don't switch much at all from the 6335 just now specifically because of these tuning differences. I find the others pretty hard work when I give them a run out and I can do without the complication. I've only just started getting back above the stave again so I guess it's just a matter of steady focused practice - forget high C and work on straightening F and so on (?)

    For your benefit, Mr k! American Standard Pitch Notation (Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I can do Helmholtz if you prefer (f'') :-)
     
  5. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    I might suppose that different regions/lands use different terminology, but in the US when referring to what octave an instrument is in, the frame of reference, unless otherwise noted, is not the grand clef but where that note lies in the given (and notated) range of the instrument in question. That relates to the written/transposed notes and not to the concert pitches.

    Example: the C below the treble clef for trumpet is called (in the vernacular) low C. I have never heard it called C4 (scientific notation). Just bringing this up in case there are other traditions I'm not aware of.
     
  6. Culbe

    Culbe Forte User

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  7. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

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    These notes are often out of tune. It depends on the horn and the person. I find my F and my G to be sharp, the A one ledger line above the staff tends to also be quite sharp. Relaxing and playing in the center of pitch helps but the problem may never quite go away. Alternate fingerings can help, especially with long notes that are part of a chord and more "exposed." In these circumstances, you may try 3rd valve for A, and even 1-3 for G, or 123 for F#. Depending on the role of the note, you could have to go to such "drastic" measures. If it is used as the 3rd of the major chord, it has to be taken down quite a bit. However, this gets complicated by the facts that people hear different when sitting 20 ft away from the horn, and in many cases are used to the sharp and prefer it that way. I've made efforts to tune finely in band only to find other players asking me why I was flat.
    If this was easy, everyone would do it right?
     
  8. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Fortunately, I've no other ear to convince but my own, Phil.

    Pretty sure it's a chops issue : it feels as if I maybe choking off the aperture a bit. I'll exercise patience and let nature find a way.
     
  9. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    what you got no first valve slide on that thing?? then try to open your aperture ever so slightly -- might want to look at some exercises on "bending" notes -----
     
  10. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Of course! But that isn't the point, KT. Pulling 1st slide just takes the slot down below F. Actually, a quick and dirty fix is to play F 1&3. The sharpness of that combination plus me blowing a bit sharp just about balances the inherent flatness of the 7th harmonic.
     

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