I wasnâ€™t aware that anyone was blowing out any candles. I said that embouchure change should be the last thing we try not the first. I still feel that there is a big difference between having someone try rolling the lips in and having them play softly or having them relax. Rolling the lips changes how and where the lips contact the mouthpiece and changes where the two lips actually vibrate against each other. It also adds lip tissue to the mouthpiece cup and many people need a different size mouthpiece to make that work well. IT also affects how much lip to lip compression is needed to play every note we play, the roll itself needs to be adjusted for every register we play in, it changes the feel and need for corner tension. This can take YEARS to get right and some people never get it. I taught my first embouchure change to the rolled in concept in 74. Iâ€™ve done MANY since then. I do actually have some idea what is involved. There are some people who can switch in an hour Iâ€™ve seen it but there are some who can never switch. Iâ€™ve seen that too. I had a student who spent 4 years with Stevens and never got it. He thought he would never have range but by approaching from a different approach he did. BTW he is a trumpet prof with a doctorate. You donâ€™t have to start with the extreme. You may need to go there but not start there. Playing softly doesnâ€™t make this kind of abrupt change and I like it better as a first choice. Besides playing softly is a technique that Herseth endorses. And he is pretty good. I am very aware of the book that Mr. Schilke wrote on acoustics of brass and the affects of different materials. I got my copy of that and the book on horn acoustics from Mr. Schilke. Nowhere in it did he say the player didnâ€™t need good support or the lips didnâ€™t need it. Just that the instrument itself didnâ€™t need it. The problem is MY horn wonâ€™t play itself. Of course you do realize that my talk about projection is intended as a visualization and is not 100% literal. When we add stiffness to the lips either by lip to lip compression, rolling in, tensing the corners or even by added mouthpiece pressure; then we make them less responsive and we need a stronger impetus of air to make them vibrate. This idea of projection and sending the notes farther away came from Don Jacoby who talks about it in his book ( I got it from private lessons with him.) Mike Vax also presented it at the ITG convention in 2001. Doc talks about the air shooting out of the bell of his horn like a laser and hitting the back wall of the room he plays in. AS far as the stomach involvement well Bobby Shew and his wedge, Bud Brisbois got Bobby started on this, Maynard Ferguson uses yoga and everyone has seen how far his stomach moves when he plays. These men are doing this and talking about this in regards to playing whereas Schilke was discussing horn not the player. I think Iâ€™ll go with the people who were actually talking about playing not about making horns. And again Mr. Schilke didnâ€™t say we shouldnâ€™t do this as players. AS for my idea that gigging adults need to be taught in a different manner from kids. Well Bruce you are free to do what you want to. AS is any other teacher. I think that we do students a serious disservice by lumping them together and teaching them all the same. Especially when talking about this kind of age difference and then add to that the playing commitments of gigging adults. Anyway the intent of having a forum like this is to help. Some posters never offer anything but I like to stay on topic and that topic was why going from Eb to E the sound thinned out. So: Every octave higher that we play the size of the aperture is cut in half. These numbers are not the real ones but were chosen to make the demo easier. IF Double Pedal C = 64 inches, then Pedal C = 32 inches, Low C = 16 inches, Middle C = 8 inches, High C = 4 inches, Double High C = 2 inches, Triple High C = 1 inch You see that playing low notes teaches us to make BIG lip movements However; playing in the upper register REQUIRES us to use TINY lip movements. We spent years playing in the bottom 2 octaves of the horn and got really good at making these big lip movements. Now when we start playing higher we go way too far. This is choking off your E. This is the long explanation of my first post. Sometimes telling someone to relax and open up does it for them. Then we donâ€™t have to go any farther and why get technical if it is not needed? The Eb and the E are the same harmonic in the series. Eb uses 2nd valve and E is open. They are the SAME except for that valve and it makes the horn longer. If you made NO physical change then lifting your finger should make E as strong as Eb. You are over doing the facial movements that is way you have squeals.