Where do we draw the line?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by S-Money, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. S-Money

    S-Money Pianissimo User

    Dec 8, 2006
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    So, I've been reading lots of players websites and credentials, and they all have so many names that they've studied under, played with, etc. It got me thinking... did these people have regular lessons with someone for X amount of time, or did they take one lesson and say they've studied with a certain person?

    We just had a jazz camp here, where Marvin Stamm was one of the head guys. I worked with him for 3 days, and had some one on one time, studied some things with him... could I officially say I've "Studied under Marvin Stamm"?

    Where is the line drawn on that kind of stuff... to me, it seems sketchy at points.
  2. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

    Jun 11, 2006

  3. camelbrass

    camelbrass Mezzo Forte User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Dubai, UAE
    I'm not so sure.

    I will be spending some time again this summer with Keith Johnson, quite a bit of it on a one on one basis. I wouldn't ever think to say I studied with him.


  4. uatrmpt

    uatrmpt Piano User

    Nov 29, 2003
    I think I would classify that as "has received coaching from" or "additional studies with..."
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    There is actually no line. One lesson is enough for the credential.
    It is just proof that credentials are not a deciding factor - recommendations are. If you want lessons and call Marvin Stamm and he says, I don't have any time but check out xxx - that means something. In the past, I have always gone "to the top" with my request for lessons. Sometimes it worked, often I was deferred to some other AWESOME teacher. In 40 years of playing, I have only had one teacher that didn't work out.
    The same goes with recommendations for gigs. If Marvin can't and says call xxx, that has weight!
    I am usually wary of a three page list of teacher credentials. Every good teacher has their own playing style and leaves some stamp on each of the students. Running to tons of teachers to me means that the student is going wide instead of deep. The playing is often the same way - lacking depth!
  6. S-Money

    S-Money Pianissimo User

    Dec 8, 2006
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    It is this kind of thing that made me ask the question. I've seen the people with multiple pages of credentials, and thats when I got to thinking about "did they REALLY study indepth with them, or did they pay for a lesson and a name for their web page?"

    This could be way out there, but it seems to me I would only list people I've studied with that had a pretty noticable impact on my playing. I may not have spent a lot of time with Marvin, but there were 2 things I was having trouble with in my playing, and he cleared them up immediatly, not to mention the other useful knowledge he bestowed on me. Id much rather list him after being with him for 3 days, than another professional who i may have gone a few more times to, but didn't really help me improve. :dontknow:
  7. JunkyT

    JunkyT Pianissimo User

    Jan 6, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    This is the defining factor, I think. If someone's teaching has had a major impact on my playing, I feel fine listing them. I have been taking lessons with Ingrid Jensen over the past year-and-a-half or so. She lives in NYC and I'm in Seattle, so in that time I've seen her maybe half a dozen times. But those few lessons have had a major impact on how I approach the horn, so I list her as one of my teachers/influences.
  8. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    My answer too is yes , IF you picked up something of value .
    (After 3 days, I'm sure you did) . You can spend weeks and months
    with someone and still not get much from it. Time spent is of little
    importance, what's learned is paramount.
  9. djm6701

    djm6701 Pianissimo User

    I think it's more honest to just be specific about the circumstances. For example, just listing names off, here's my list of teachers without regard for the number of lessons, etc.:

    James Spragg, 2nd trumpet, Toronto Symphony Orchestra
    Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds, Senior Lecturer, U of Toronto
    Stephen Chenette, former principal trumpet, Minnesota Orchestra, Past President ITG
    Arnold Jacobs, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
    Arnie Chycoski, former Lead trumpet of the Boss Brass
    Chase Sanborn
    Roger Ingram, lead trumpet, Harry Connick Jr.
    Charley Davis, LA studio musician
    Marcus Belgrave, formerly with Ray Charles and the LCJO
    Marvin Stamm

    What it really looks like should be

    Studied with

    Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds (3 yrs)
    James Spragg (1 yr)
    Chase Sanborn (1 yr)

    Lessons with...

    Stephen Chenette (3)
    Arnold Jacobs (3)
    Arnie Chycoski (3)
    Roger Ingram (1)
    Charley Davis (1)

    Masterclasses attended

    Marvin Stamm
    Branford Marsalis (he plays sax, I know, I know)

    Attended the Stanford Jazz Workshop under Marcus Belgrave

    which I think gives a more realistic view.
  10. robertwhite

    robertwhite Mezzo Piano User

    Nov 11, 2003
    I strongly disagree with the contention that what YOU get out of it determines the credential. Teachers are often generous with their time and energy. We all stand to benefit from a playing standpoint from that generosity, but to use it as a "business" advantage is bogus. In this era of free-floating information, our spheres of influence are expanding. Our spheres of DIRECT, SUSTAINED mentorship,though, are precious and rare - and that is what we are telling people when we say "I studied with..."

    When I look at a resume and I see "William Adam" listed as a teacher, what's communicated is "I saw Mr. Adam pretty much every week for an extended period of time" or "I've gone to see him once a month for the past two years" or something like that.

    Teachers with whom you've had less contact could be listed as "supplemental study". On my CV for instance, I do what the other poster mentioned and list where and when and for how long. On my orchestral resume, though, only my primary teachers are listed. For masterclasses, I only mention them if I was one of the players in a formal masterclass setting. I'd never list masterclasses I simply attended.

    To state that Marvin Stamm was one of your teachers after 3 lessons, though, would strike me as at least misleading or worse, disingenuous. The main point is to list your primary musical mentors in your career; the people who have as much ownership of you as you have of them.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007

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