Why do people try to sound dark?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Brass_of_all_Trades, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Now more often than not, I'm on the winning side when I play chess at the Senior Center here, but it wasn't always that way when I once played against better opponents. Still when I did lose the game prior, I won by learning how not to lose again. That's not to say I don't lose the game now, but again I win because I made someone else happy. The consequence is that when I started playing at the center, there were only 2 chess sets, and now they have 6 sets and my opposition is getting better, I'm losing the game more often and others are happier, even the onlookers.
  2. robrtx

    robrtx Mezzo Forte User

    May 26, 2012
    Well......yeah, ok then, at least there's that.......:shock:
  3. mickvanflugel

    mickvanflugel Forte User

    Jul 1, 2011

    Well, apart from the morbid side of "dark",
    I would rather say a nice dark sound means to have a rich core to it,
    the opposite being a bright sound that is thin and tinny.
    But then, that all depends on the ability of the player
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    It is exactly the other way around. When there are no defining overtones, the section sound is crap - there is no blending, As I previously mentioned, those that talk dark are talk only.

    We can examine blend: optimally this always works out to two very similar "clear" voices and a maximum of resultant tones (Sum and difference/heterodyning). THIS IS BLENDING as understood in EVERY professional symphony orchestra, big band, concert band. When I try and blend an overtone weak trumpet sound with another overtone weak trumpet sound, I get MUSH that only screws up any ensemble sound. Not dull (even bright) has the BIG advantage of sounding articulate and clear. Those are two traits that most that talk about dark never have experienced.

    Most of the "dark" stuff comes from a sound created in the studio. It is not dark, it is specifically tailored with an equalizer, dynamic processor, microphone position as well as the creative energy of the musician to retain detail in spite of the lower amount of overtone energy.

    I will also disagree with the generality that a Wick no letter is dark. I have heard enough players peel paint with them.

    It would take one 20 minute lesson to educate and cure the talkers if they were in receive instead of transmit mode. The first part is frequency response, the second is playing style. Both are required for the player listener in the know!

  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    You sound as if you know this from authority... Hope you haven't been there to experience this first hand (or last hand as it would be).

    I would say the only thing darker is something we ALL have experienced. Before we were all born, we had 9 months of complete darkness, warmth, and food from a tube, and life was good, we were content. And then some jerk with a mask, pulls you out of this place, smacks you an the butt and says welcome to the world. Thanks, thanks a lot!
  6. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    That's the good version. For at least one of us it was some jerk with industrial grade forceps and the words "I'm afraid he's a little underdone"
  7. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    very interesting thread --- I got to tell you that my King Silver Flair (pre-80's model) won't really blend with the strads in a concert hall, or auditorium --- it just sticks out ----- that Flair is perfect for summer outdoor concerts where projection and sound is needed (cause the band typically has only me or another 3rd trumpet in the summer, and there are 10 trumpets in the 1st and 2nd chairs -----guess only 1 of KT is needed in the summer, because he can cover the whole 3rd part------------------------------- but for auditoriums, I "darken" down the music by using my "newer" King Silver Flair (2055T) with a heavier mpc, sure it doesn't make the thing -- bland and with no sound, but it's better that way -------------------------- the King Silver Flair 1055 can be played in the concert hall, but you (I) just have to finesse it a bit, to blend with the others --- so much easier just to change horns and mpc.. IMHO
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006

    it would be cool to have one duet session with you and your horns and mine. You would be convinced afterwards that either Silver Flair blends with a Monette, Bach, 1938 Bb rotary trumpet or 1897 F rotary trumpet. The trick is not the horn, but the perceived balance. There are horns where it is harder to hear yourself, you play louder and nothing works. That happens to most players with really light or heavy horns. 30 minutes of duets are all that is necessary and we can all of a sudden line up with dramatically different styles of playing - when we are in reception mode instead of transmit!

  9. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

    May 27, 2014
    i believe the darkness issue has been covered and then some. i would only add that approaching your trumpet like a douchbag does not make you chet baker. but i would really like to hear from rowuk about the F trumpet. would love to see pictures or a video. i have not heard one except in one video on this site "franck and the missing cornets". is it at A440? what kind of mouthpiece does one use on it? do you play it for gigs, or is it more a practice horn or collector's item?

    the only expert discussion of the F trumpets i have heard is from a former cso player who believes that when we play certain repertoire, the sound of the old F trumpet is what we're looking for, because these instruments had a natural resonance, due to their length, that many players today have missed. would really like to hear more, because these are very rare, at least in my experience. i would also like to know more of the history behind the evolution from F trumpets to the Bb. popular history goes back to new york bachs, which i know some people still play, and before that, bessons. before that, there seems to be a drop off in available information. anyone else who has one or knows more, i'd love to hear from you also!
  10. Brass_of_all_Trades

    Brass_of_all_Trades New Friend

    Sep 8, 2014
    I don't know a whole lot about low F trumpets but here's a YouTube video of a guy playing one.


    It's hard to tell the playing characteristics because the player doesn't seem to very familiar with the instrument.

Share This Page