Why would someone sell a dream horn?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by bandman, May 19, 2007.

  1. bandman

    bandman Forte User

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    I originally posted this as a response on another thread when a guy posted a link to an eBay horn sale eBay: AMREIN 8121S Trumpet; $4000.00+ new! (item 290113888062 end time May-20-07 15:00:00 PDT):

    So can anyone explain why you would sell the best horn you have ever owned unless you are financially strapped, or in poor health? I don't mean this thread in any form of disrespect -- I just can't imagine letting my main horns go for any rational reason.
     
  2. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    Because he's an Ebay "buyer/seller" and this horn is better than the Holton TM 200 that he handled a month ago? Sometimes you have to look past the VERY obvious in these Ebay offers. Check his feedback... seems to be an OK ebayer though.
     
  3. Veldkamp

    Veldkamp Piano User

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    I visited Amrein a few months ago and played some of his lastest horns and prototypes. I didn't like the horns at all and they were much overpriced. So maybe that's a reason why he sells it. He was disappointed too in his dreamhorn and tries to get his investment back.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Many times your idea about what is good does not fit in the concept of the music director or your colleagues.
    As Dave Monette started the heavy horn revolution many years back, I will use this brand as an example. The players immediately had much more dynamics and tonal color - but often didn't take into consideration the pressure that they were placing on the rest of the group. They had brought a "non-standard" sound of great resonance into the group - who may not have agreed with the decision. This happened to me in a quintet that I was playing with. I played first with an Ajna2 and B2 mouthpiece (having switched from a Bach 72* and Schilke 18 mouthpiece). The second player had a 43G Bach Bb with a Schilke 15b4. He complained that he couldn't hear himself - it had nothing to do with volume, it had to do with the "thickness" or "density" of the sound. The group broke up because of other reasons, but this showed me for ensemble playing how important having similar sound concepts is (and hardware that is not too dissimilar).
    Instead of leaving an instrument in its case, I think it would make more sense to motivate the other player to change, or sell the horn to a new "loving" owner. The real shame is when those instruments are not PLAYED!
    Manny also has some stories about this.
    As Eclipse, Taylor and NYTC are making heavy horns too (but not quite as long), I think that their players will eventually run into this situation also. This is part of the reason that I recommend high schoolers going to college to connect with their profs before buying something that may not "fit" regardless of quality!
     
  5. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

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    I too, have experienced what Robin talks about. I know have a "section" horn for the times I need to fit in... while I don't like it as much as my primary instruments for soloing it's a good compromise. Unless I was playing first I wouldn't bring my heavier or vintage horns to gigs.

    I have sold many a great horn. I think a lot of it was because I am fickle, blaming equipment for my own drawbacks, not willing to switch horns (and upset expensive instruments sat in the case), etc.

    I know Mark is very similar to me that we go through a lot of horns, searching for that magic instrument that connects your brain directly into the instrument. I think with his new purchase though he might slow down, like I have as well.
     
  6. Taylor

    Taylor New Friend

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    Perhaps Mr Bandman selling the $4000 Amriem didnt pay $4000 for it in the first place!! Perhaps, if he deals in these things he merely wants to recoup his costs.

    I do the same. I'm not going to 'not' take in a fancy name horn just because it has a reputation, or a cult following. I've got quite a collection of these 'dream' horns on my shelf. I didnt actuall 'buy' any of them. Players get an 'itch', and that itch needs scratching from time to time. And, if they just must have a certain horn, then the last 'must have' is the horn that gets traded for it. I think some of you might be kidding yourself if you've never done this, or been tempted to.

    For an example (or two), take a look on the classifieds on this website. Who would possibly want to trade such fine horns in? Well someone did! Oh and I've got a lovely 1940 New York Bach, all original parts. A 1960 Schilke B1 prototype (do your research on that one). A mint 1926 Martin Handcraft Soprano Sax. 2 superb holy grail saxes (King silver Sonic Super 20's). A mint 1964 Gibson Firebird (this one makes trumpet prices look bargain basement). and so it goes on. All except the Gibson and the Kings are for sale. I have to eat, just like you!

    I've been guilty of this with guitars over the years. I've kept 'old faithful' for the last 15 years, but the back up axe has been changed many a time.

    Hand on your heart, can you really say, this one a keeper and really mean it? Maybe you're strong willed and you can, but I cant.

    All the best.

    Andy Taylor.
    Taylor Trumpets.
     
  7. bandman

    bandman Forte User

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    Well Mr. Taylor, If I owned Taylor trumpets and could make custom horns to my own specifications I might see your point in selling horns! I'll take a Chicago Copper Custom please!!!

    I mean this post with only the greatest amount of respect. My Harrelson is Jason's old personal C trumpet that he had modified for himself. I always wondered what a horn made for a hornmaker would be like? When I bought my horn from Jason I found out. All I can say is WOW!!!

    I wonder what Andy Taylor's personal trumpet(s) must be like. I bet your horns have some special little touches. The nice thing for you is that you can sell one and then make one that might be even better for yourself! I'm about as envious of that position as I can be about anything!
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor New Friend

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    Hi.

    I take your point, but I can only quote that old saying 'the grass is always greener on the other side'.

    I make trumpets, and some very fancy ones sometimes, but I'm not a 'trumpet player' in the same way you guys are. I can play, but choose usually not to outside my workshop walls. I look at and make horns all day. At the end of the day I dont really fancy practicing and playing them as well, I've had enough. To me its the creating, the making, not the playing I enjoy.

    Guitar is what I play because I 'enjoy' it. Like I said before, old faithful stays with me, but the back up axe is fair game, and I've got through a few! even made a few for fun and only ever kept one of them, and that looks a wreck now, no-one would want that one.

    I've got some real nice ones on the shelf, but I dont have a 'private' collection of trumpets. Any trumpet is fair game to the checkbook as thats my living. I read some of these postings and some of you seem to have enough horns to use a different one every day of the week!

    The two trumpets and one flugel that I did make for myself did sucumb to the checkbook because after doing it and enjoying it for a little while I thought, Mmm... I could make a better one, so next one is Er, different. Its a bit like you 'musicians'. You play something a certain way for a while then something in the back of the head says, hey I can move this on in a different direction, and thats cool. After all 'Autumn Leaves' isnt written in stone is it? You play it 'your' way, and I dont care who you are, that interpretation will change over the years. And likely as much, so will the choice of equipment.

    Food for thought.

    All the best.

    Andy Taylor.
    Taylor Trumpets.
     
  9. Mark Bradley

    Mark Bradley Pianissimo User

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    Well, now I know how old folks in a nursing home feel-- people talk about you like you're not there... and you're sitting in the same room!

    I'm the seller of the Amrien. For those that missed my response here's what I had to say on another thread last week when asked why on earth I would sell a "dream horn:"
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    A fair question. Check out the Gearhead Page of my two bit web site and you'll see what I'm now playing. This is a custom job matching exactly what I'm now looking for in a trumpet (a Melk V1 conversion). This Melk just suits me better personally, it dosn't take anything away from the Amrein. I've had a few other amazing trumpets that in a perfect world I'd have love to have kept even though for whatever reason they wouldn't be my daily player. For example I had a Marcinkiewicz "Coppola" (a copy of an old large bore Martin Committee by the way) that is very similar to this Amrien-- that large bore proved to be too much for me over the long haul but wow, what an instrument! You could feel it come alive too. But it's really mainly a question of money-- I can 't afford to keep every horn I lay my grubby little hands on. I'll routinely sell what I have to make way for the next victim, it's the only way I can afford to undertake such a hobby. To me, it's the ultimate fun to play and experiment with different horns. Hey-- some people buy moterboats (the rationalization I give the spouse). I'd love to have this Amrein and all the others I've owned "sitting on ice" as it were, and keep it but five factors keep me from doing this: 1)to me an "extra" horn sitting unused is something of a waste-- even though out of selfishness I asked my wife to bury me with whatever I'm currently playing at the time ("Sure I will," she said, and then went to ebay to see what it's worth). 2)I'll use the money to try something else eventually (don't tell the wife!) 3) a second horn becomes a distraction to me, just like a bunch of mouthpieces I don't use-- better to focus on one at at time 4) where would I keep all them all? and lastly but not leastly 5) there are still trumpets/flugels/cornets out there I HAVE NOT PLAYED! (ha!)

    This Amrein really does play great but for the high octane section work I do (such that it is) and "all round" use the Melk works better for me-- a ML bore and Bach 37-ish bell seems to suit me best. But that's not the case for a friend who's an excellent lead player that loves this Amrein but he doesn't have the bread to buy it-- a true musician (ha!).

    I've run through a slew of excellent horns. Just because I haven't kept them obviously doesn't meant there's something "wrong" with them which I guess selling them sort of implies. But good grief, as many as I've owned if I was selling them because something was wrong with them it would exclude almost every trumpet out there (ha!). This Amrein is a fantastic instrument and for someone looking for its particular traits it's a heck of a nice horn. The only two trumpets I've seen that match this Amrein in quality is Blackburn and Marcinkiewicz (I had an Eclipse and although OK I wouldn't personally put them in the same class as the aforementioned-- now don't get mad, that's just my own personal opinon). I'm not a hoarder (except when it comes to coffee)... so back out to the world I offer the Amrein. And, yeah, someday I'll probably regret doing it!

    -------------------------------------

    So again... the Marcinkiewicz Coppola and SC4X, Scodwell, Eclipse, Hub van Laar, Scodwell, Calicchio, Shilkes I've owned-- these are but a few higher end of probably a couple of dozen trumpets, cornets and flugels I've run through that could be called dream horns as well. This Amrein is an amazing trumpet but just now quite the "one" for me-- just like the others. No I didn't pay four grand for it by the way but that's indeed what they cost new. Does that "bother" you?

    As I say in the earlier post if I was a filthy rich SOB it would be nice to have kept very horn I've had, but since I use the dough from the previous horn to go to the next (generally losing a little money, sometimes breaking even and rarely even making a paltry surplus) that's the way of it.

    So it's come to this-- having run through practically every "production" trumpet out there in my quest for the perfect horn I've now had Charlie Melk make me a totally custom Franken-horn taking this and that of what I like from other horns-- witness my new Conn V1 conversion (on Gearhead Page of my two bit web site below).

    As an analogy, some people are perfectly happy drinking Folgers coffee their whole lives (not bad stuff by the way, roasted here in K.C.). I'm the type that while enjoying my cup of Folgers, only get inspired to find something better-- whether it exists or not is the fun of the hunt.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Some info for people interested in Amrein:
    Mr. Amrein is the owner. His instrument builder is (was?) Mr. Schneider who is the master who taught brass at the school of instrument building in Ludwigsburg, Germany. This is man that trained many of the Yamaha masters as well as other instrument builders of note.
    I can attest to the German attention to detail, precision workmanship and great sound concept. I still kick myself in the butt for not having bought a particular rotary C 5 years ago (it was too good to be true!)............
     

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