why?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by screamingmorris, May 11, 2008.

  1. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

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    That Web page shows posters discussing such matters, but I don't see anyone authoritative making any assertions on that Web page.

    I consider Donald Reinhardt to be more authoritative:

    "Although it is not as commonly instructed today as in older method books, allowing the tongue to penetrate between the lips and teeth for the attack is still a common playing fault..."
    An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System

    - Morris
     
  2. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    I'm reasonably sure that there's no one authoritative when it comes to this sort of thing. :-) It seems clear that there are multiple ways to get to where you want to be.

    However, I do believe that Arban probably did say to tongue between the teeth and possibly between the lips. How *much* between the lips, well, that's a subject for speculation, I guess.

    Tom
     
  3. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    It might be an equipment thing. A Bach 7 is a fine cornet mouthpiece; your Conn a fine cornet, but they may not be compatible with one another. Here are a couple of tests to try:

    Starting on C below the staff, play a crescendo from p to f, remaining "neutral"--if the pitch wants to change (up or down) make note of it and repeat the experiment with other open tones. Usually if the pitch changes, it will change the same direction on all the notes. If the pitch rises it indicates a backbore that is too large, if it falls the backbore is too small. If there is a drastic change with the crescendo the horn/mouthpiece combination can react pretty squirrelly.

    Use a pencil to mark the mouthpiece where it sits in the receiver, then repeat the same using a period Conn mouthpiece--is the distance from pencil mark to the end of the shank the same on both instruments? If so, they have the same shank size. My 1895 Holton doesn't like any of my Bach cornet mouthpieces, but sings with the original, a period Sears mouthpiece and a faily old Selmer mouthpiece--the shank is the same size in each case.

    This might help--I hope it does!
     
  4. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

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    Morris,

    You might want to look at your tongue level. I was experiencing this same thing a few months back. After some research, soul searching and discussion with my trumpet instructor, the latter of the three being the most beneficial, I decided that, when I was slurring, my tongue went flat in my mouth. When I was tonguing, I was using a solid tongue arch and adjusting it according to the note I was playing (Think "EE" for high notes and "AH" for lower notes). Try raising the back of the tongue as you ascend and lowering it as you descend. You should find that it is much easier to distinguish the intervals when slurring.

    Mike
     
  5. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

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    Morris,

    How is the slurring going?

    Mike
     
  6. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

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    After much practice and allowing myself time to get used to a huge .485 bore cornet,
    I am almost back to where I was when I used the smaller .460 bore cornet.
    I need to warm up a little longer on the .485 bore, but that might be just temporary, until I am even more adjusted to the new cornet.
    Strangely, the .485 bore no longer feels huge to me, because my embouchure has apparently tightened enouigh to prevent the air from "falling" into the cornet as when I first got it.

    Now I notice a different "problem".
    I use a Bach 7-no letter for mellow tone, a Bach 7E for "legitimate high notes", and a Weril W46 for "illegitimate screaming".
    When I am fully warmed up and my embouchure is tight, I am surprised that my tone on the Bach 7-no letter is not much mellower than the tone on my bach 7E.
    It *is* mellower, but just a little bit so.

    I guess that I try to put my embouchure in "super chops" mode to such a degree that it contributes brightness even to my use of the Bach 7-no letter (I can't resist playing scales and songs up to High D with it).
    If I deliberately try to relax my embouchure with the Bach 7- no letter to achieve a mellower tone on low notes, my embouchure drops out of "super chops" mode so that high notes are impossible, and I find that I must practice several minutes afterward to re-tighten the embouchure for high notes.
    As I mentioned in a different thread somewhere, that is apparently a problem that some other players have encountered.
    I read at least one post somewhere that said that a high note specialist should avoid trying to have too rich a tone in the lower register because it will adversely effect his upper register.
    So I am addressing the problem by playing the lowest notes more softly, with less "richness", so that my embouchure remains relatively even for the low notes.

    That also helps in another way I recently described:
    Years ago I read that when ascending scales a person should play the lower notes more softly than the higher notes, because a softly-played lower note requires the same amount of air as a loudly-played high note. That allows the embouchure aperture a more constant amount of air flow through it.
    If you play loud low notes up to loud high notes, the amount of air coming through the aperture is decreasing and you must tighten the embouchure more while ascending that scale, making it more difficult.
    By playing lower notes more softly than higher notes in my songs, I am making those slurs easier.

    Edit: I did check my tongue level as you recommended and I was already doing it correctly.
    But it was good for me to check because I was doing it so automatically that I wasn't aware if I was doing it.

    - Morris making another long-winded post because weeks of using a .485 bore cornet has increased his lung capacity
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  7. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

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    Cool... I'm glad it is working out for you! Keep us up to date....
     

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