Will switching horns help long run?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by TrumpetMonk, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,964
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    I think it would hurt if you had a $2-3,000 Bach, Schilke....... too.

    The point is, I got the job done and even although it was sub-optimal, the musical message remained intact.

    I wish many of the young posters here would get the idea out of their head that the horn determines anything. The audience could care less about dark, light, high, low, loud, soft. They are there for the show and OUR PLAYING STYLE makes that work or not. If we do not have heavy duty high chops, we simply play an octave lower and nobody notices. Immaturity would make us want to "prove something" and crack a note rather than keep the musical big picture intact.

    Build solid habits on whatever horn you have. If your sense of intonation, dynamics, rhythm and musical line are in order, YOU will have made somebodies day.
     
  2. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    2,459
    29
    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.

    You know what to expect from the trumpet. You know the difference between what you hear and what is heard out front.

    A student (depending on how good they are) is also being shaped by the trumpet. They haven't learned to control the trumpet.
     
  3. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    We definitely agree on this -- merely switching horns won't immediately make the young player play at a higher level of performance. But the thread's subject line includes "long run" and that is where a pro horn will eventually make a difference over a student horn. In the long run we all reach a point where we can get better results from a pro horn than we can get from a student horn, even if it's not in tone or range but merely in the ease with which we can play the music we want to play.

    So in the long run, which was part of the original question, yes, a pro horn will help. In the short run, it will likely either make no difference or actually cause a slight reduction in perceived ability as the youngster adapts to the different playing characteristics of the different trumpet.

    And to anybody who suggests that in the long run, using a pro horn won't make a difference I ask why any of you own pro model horns?
     
  4. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

    2,858
    68
    May 11, 2009
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Nick, your point is well made and I doubt that anyone here disagrees (after all, hardly anyone here EVER disagrees with you cogent and well-articulated points). But to address the OP's question, it seems that what he is asking is far from where you are "in the extremes". Certainly for a player at your level, playing the types of venues that you do, there is a difference. For a student, playing outdoors while marching, in a large band, where several are playing the wrong notes at any particular time, the difference will not be noticeable to the audience and, more to the point, the student will not suffer from playing the Blessing vs the Bach. As you noted, not all of your gorgeous horns play the same but you do not suffer when you play any other than the Cali Light or you would quit playing them altogether. Part of musicianship is being able to handle a broad spectrum of equipment and environments such as showing up to play a high-level, professional concert, grabbing a beat-up student trumpet with a generic mouthpiece and blowing the doors off the place it seems like someone here has done that and maybe the OP would like to reach the point of being able to do that as well.

    So, maybe I own a Lear Jet and a Piper Cub airplane. Sometimes I want to go high and fast, sometimes I want to go low and slow. Each one has its function and I like to stay proficient in both.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,964
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    If we keep the context of the original post, the answer is no. It will make no difference because the pro horn will never go outdoors. Switching back to the Bach during concert season will require new habits (that coincide with the chop rebuild process - they do take a beating outdoors). How long that takes depends on the player. In any case there will be no immediate "boost". The next no. The final question is whether the Blessing will hurt range. Here the answer is also a very definitive no.

    What can a pro horn do for an intermediate player?
    1) demand MUCH better breath support and body use
    2) demand good hearing/intonation
    3) demand proper maintenance
    4) give a better sound and projection if points 1-3 are covered
    5) be easier to play if points 1-3 are covered.

    As I posted above, the differences become significant only when your playing is good enough. The fact that this poster like many other high schoolers only mentions range, make me believe that most differences will be wishful thinking. The Bach advantage is NOT range and never has been. Sound has been the reason and that comes to the dedicated.

    The "long run" is also intangible. Considering the amount of comeback players here, I think concentrating on NOW makes more sense then on the maybe called tomorrow! Red rot can kill the Bach long before "the long run" arrives.

    I bought my first Bach in college. Before that I played a (1911) Holton Herbert Clarke Model long cornet and a (1960s) Besson Stratford cornet. I borrowed my teachers Benge for all state orchestra. Nothing got better because of the switch.

    I own professional instruments because I do have proper support and practice habits and earn money with my horns to support the habit. In the long run, only my practice habits gave me range, flexibility, articulation, tone and the power of expression. Hardware occasionally gave me a boost in motivation. That was required to get over the "different" at the beginning of each change.
     
  6. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    Then why did you make the switch if nothing got better? Why not play on the older cornets you had?

    I'm not really trying to start an argument or be belligerent but I'm truly curious why people who claim that the instrument doesn't make a difference then admit to using different horns.

    Did you sound better on the Benge than on your cornets? Did the trumpet tone fit in better with the orchestra? There must have been some reason you borrowed a different instrument for that event. Something which your cornets couldn't offer you. And why borrow your teacher's Benge and not a Conn Director trumpet or some other student model lying around the band room?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  7. wiseone2

    wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Staff Member

    3,418
    373
    Nov 19, 2003
    Brooklyn,NY
    I worked my my butt off from the age of 8 to 14 on a Conn trumpet. I could play the studies in the Arban book. I got a Strad in high school, I was the same player and the horn was different. I transposed, I triple tongued the same on both horns. I played in orchestras, bands and many diverse ensembles because of my abilities, not because of the horn. I worked the horn, not vice-versa.
    Instruments fall apart......that is why many players change horns.
    Wilmer
     
  8. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    2,459
    29
    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    I changed my mind and deleted the post
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,964
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    This is getting stupid now.

    We all know that pro horns CAN offer more if the player has got what it takes. The thread owners questions have been controversially answered and now it is up to them to make their own decision.

    I refuse to acknowledge hardware and range in the same paragraph. That is all that was in the original post.

    I firmly believe in the right equipment for the job at hand. I have 14 different instruments and they all get used on a regular basis. None of them get used because of range, or for any "long run". They get used because their "sound" is more suitable for the job at hand.

    I was simply not allowed to play cornet in the orchestra back then. I won the position on my cornet on the condition that the concert and rehearsal be played on a trumpet. The Benge was available for free and that is why I used it.

    Instead of theory, let's look at the realities: the only way to get good is to practice and pay your dues. This student has a Bach, so why are we even bothering with this discussion? My stand is, on the field it doesn't matter and once marching season is over, the wounds have to heal. If this student has his stuff together, the Bach won't hold him back. If not, it doesn't matter. The questions have been answered, let's not reduce the thread to kindergarden.

    Sell the Monette, scheesh!
     

Share This Page