Winded?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by 9horn, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    You and barliman would be minimizing your potential if you do not do this shoulder lift. I learned technique this in a masters class given by a lead player studio sessions musician at a jazz fest clinic. It was one of the most helpful sessions I ever attended. If you use it right, it works very well, and very efficiently. Again, the two of you are not making the connections. The control is shifted to the abdomen, the shouder lift is used in the fueling process of getting more air to work with. Once you have more air, you shift the process to abdominal support in contoling the air flow. The shoulders in this phase are then relaxed.
     
  2. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    3,139
    1,603
    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    It's not often I disagree with you Gman but on this one I think we will have to agree to differ, bearing in mind the mechanics I have learnt from vocal coaches.

    Just a few notes below

    Are opera singers who are taught not to lift their shoulders when breathing are doing it wrong. I believe it was Joan Sutherland's coaching in part in this direction that turned Pavarotti from a decent pro tenor into the star he became.

    All my singing teachers have been wrong about breathing techniques, which I believe as do many others to be pretty much identical throughout wind instruments. Bearing in mind the voice was the first wind instrument.

    Finally the tension one can (I'll emphasise CAN) create in lifting the shoulders is easy not easy to get rid of quickly enough to make it worthwhile having a little extra breath. Uncontrolled breath is wasted breath as far as I am concerned.

    I can see where you are coming from in shifting control from shoulder to abdomen but it seems to me an extra movement and thus a waste of energy
     
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio

    Ahh... We are not talking the same mechanisms here. What works for singing is not transferable to trumpet playing. Different dynamics. Whet the trumpet air as a fuel reserve is vital. We then occlude the airway with a piece of metal to control the flow. And what great control we have in the trumpet. You do not have this resistance piece for vacal work, so what you were told in vocal performance I have no doubt is golden. Do not transfer this to trumpet playing as I will go on the mat that if trumpet players do not take advantage of the shoulder lift, they will not be able to maximize their potential. Airway researve is everything. Lifting the shouldes gives us extra lung capacity. That is vital for extended, demanding trumpet playing... but I agree... not needed for the wimpy...

    ...so sign away pretty boy... and leave the trumpet playing to the men (and wo-men).
     
  4. Branson

    Branson Piano User

    486
    141
    Jan 16, 2011
    Your best advice came from Comeback,

    the first response.
     
  5. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    3,139
    1,603
    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    What we might also be talking about is the difference between classical (cultured controled playing and training) and Jazz/Lead/ Commercial playing (Wailing around stretching sinews to get as high and loud as possible and beating the audience around the head with your sound).


    I notice Ms Balsom rarely if ever shifts her top line while playing. I say again I am happy to agree to differ on this point. Airway reserve is only key if you can control it. You can take the breath of all breaths but if you stick it all down the horn in one go the sound would be at best interesting.
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Wow!!! I do agree with this.

    The sound would be blasting... not good. You again miss the point. I call the air in the lung RESERVE. You have it if you need it... but often time do not. But your efficiency (which is the subject of the original post) is enhanced by having this reserve on store, so the player can concentrate on titrating what air the need out to the horn to control the volume and tonal quality they desire.
     
  7. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    3,139
    1,603
    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    Titrating? a chemical analasys of the breath needed to play?
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Don't want my breath analasys when I play... albeit there is no problem with legal limit to trumpet playing... and I leave the driving to Eddie.
     
  9. Churchman

    Churchman Mezzo Piano User

    699
    373
    Apr 26, 2012
    Miss Helseth also looks like someone has applied superglue to her top half while playing - nothing seems to move at all.
     
  10. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    3,139
    1,603
    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    You're English aren't you Churchman, ever heard of Alan Morrisson the great Cornet player from Grimethorpe (and others) Watch his "Buster Strikes Back" you tube Alan Morrison Oddessy Cornet and you'll get it. his top line never moves either.
     

Share This Page