Winded?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by 9horn, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Winded??? I just finished Radedzky's March Op 288 by Johann Strauss Sr. yesterday, and by that I mean playing as many as 14 instrument parts, some as are bass, dubbing one part over another, and I'm 77 and am diagnosed with COPD. Yeah, I was ready for my O2 therapy and a nap afterward. Yeah, I know it isn't New Years yet as is when the Vienna Philharmonic closes their New Year concert with this song. OK really, this was 3 weeks in the making, 2 playing, and one manipulating the audio, but I'm satisfied that I have done as well as I can. I will say that such would be a real showpiece for Lisa's Om Pah band, or any band, even the U.S. Marine Band (it is in their repertoire).
     
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    I still don't get it. Carbon dioxide-induced anxiety. Behavior... [Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1988] - PubMed - NCBI
     
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Bingo--got it now.
     
  5. Dean_0

    Dean_0 Piano User

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    Umm i think i missed the point? and i thought at the time i was filling my lungs from the bottom up? but somehow the air i put in just didn't get used up so every time i took more air it seemed to be getting less room ?
    i dont understand what neg pressure would be in the chest?

    Dean_0
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    A picture (video) is worth a thousand words.
    Mechanics of Lung Ventilation - YouTube

    As you see in the video, the black air tends to go toward the upper lobes (lungs don't fill from bottom up as it is a gas not a liquid). That is why the Dr. O shoulder lift is the best for optimizing air filling the lungs.

    Or it was going to another place (the food tube) as it is in the chest cavity and feels that negative pressure. Read on:

    Negative pressure is relative... like my brother... very negative guy... always pressuring me... BUT SERIOUSLY NOW

    "Negative pressure" is relative to the current atmospheric pressure, so before you inspire, the air around you, the air inside you is at 1 atmosphere pressure. Then you signal your intercostal and diaphram muscles to contract, that expands the airway creating more volume less pressure. From the gas law: pv=nrt so solving for p: p = nrt/v so a larger denominator v (volume) gives a smaller p (pressure). So with this muscle contraction, we get less pressure (relative) to the 1 atmosphere pressure, and at this point air PASSIVELY flows into the lung... from a greater pressure souce (the world) to a lower pressure source (your chest cavity).

    Now in your chest cavity is your food tube and your heart that "feels the pressure as well". Actually this is the reason your pulmonic valve NORMALLY splits away from the aortic valve during the S2 phase of the heart beat... which we physicians listen to to assure normal valvular function when we place that sthescope to your chest. The negative pressure in your chest during inspiration ALSO increases the blood flow into the right side of the heart, filling it a bit more than the left, which delays the pulmonic valve closure as that right ventrical had more blood to eject during inspiration, which splits the dub (lub-dub) during that part of the cardiac cycle. So the heart on inspiration is lub- dub-dub; and during expiration is lub-dub. Or alternatively if you are an artist posting on TM it is BigDub.

    So you may have also sucked air against a closed glottis into your food tube (also in your chest cavity) as it too is effected. THAT is I believe the feeling you were experincing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  7. johnande

    johnande Pianissimo User

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    Gmonady... Good explanation of pulmonary ventilation and positive/negative pressure -- an area that has suffered many "mis-informational" posts. I would concur that DeanO might be breathing "into his esophagus" but would have expected considerable gas buildup in the stomach and resultant belching symptoms (which may or may not have occurred). On the other hand, if he failed to (more or less) fully expel the air in his lungs before the next breath mark I suspect he may have exhibited the same symptoms he described. I have known several trumpet players who were so concerned with "big" breaths of air that they had to have a forced expiration before each breath mark in order to take a breath. That said, the question arises as to how important is "complete filling" of the lungs in playing a trumpet? In my experience playing pop, classical and semiclassical music I have rarely found it necessary to maintain phrases long enough to merit "deep breathing," although many solo performances (which I am not involved in) might require such. Your opinion???
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    During improvisational solos, I never know when I am going to need more fuel to finish my phrase so for me it is improtant for me to fill my gas (O2) tank with as much capacity as possible. I believe this also keeps a more functional compliance to my lungs, such that the future use of pulmonary work is minimized. Kind of like an olympic weight lifter going for 500 lb work outs as a routine, such that when the weight lifter transports a 50 lb sack of cement mix for a back yard project, it is a project that is done almost effortlessly.
     
  9. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Don't play the verses at all, and let it go on the refrain. Or just a bit of descant fill in the verses: "coming of the lord" >C E G C with the C on "lord" and the higher C a beat later, do the same on "stored." and the like.
     
  10. Dean_0

    Dean_0 Piano User

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    OK just to clarify ,I think i explained it badly:

    I learned to breath from the diaphram upwards ,in other words sucking in the air from the bottom of your core ,below the belly button almost in your groin,my big breaths when i take them don't so mush raise my shoulders as they raise my pecks upward and outward in turn of course raising the shoulders a little ,but more upward and towards the back,having completed this you have a huge column of air to work with .

    Anyway i think i can say i wasn't putting air in my food tube ,i know how to do that btw ,,ever get in a belching contest ?;-)that's how you do it.

    The more i think about it ,it occurs to me that while practicing said piece i had the places to breath memorized ,but most likely was playing softer than I should have ,using less volume of air ,so when taking the next breath it was building up more than i used ,of course i was nervous ,scared because i was up there all alone :-o.

    Back then i was very good at playing long passages with one breath ,not as expert now but it gets better :D.

    Oh! i made up a new game the other day,try this while driving at highway speed ,it takes roughly 60 secs to go a mile try to purse your lips and blow air for a mile ,if your feeling lucky :evil:try to buzz for a mile ?

    Post your longest distance :-) and don't tell the cop that comes when you pass out and hit a tree what you were doing ? :think:

    Dean_0
     

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