Wrong valve oil causing buildup?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jdostie, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Maybe its just me but I never had any problems mixing different brand valve oils on any brand trumpet that I have used in my 46 years of playing, if I'm on stage and have a valve get sluggish and can't get to my own oil, I'll borrow the oil of the player next to me ,even if its a different brand and never had any trouble with oils not mixing together,.
     
  2. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    I understand Al, but if we are troubleshooting a problem it is best to isolate all the variables and deal with them one at a time - then we can tell which element is causing the problem. If, for example, the oil being used is causing a colour change on the now clean valves, then we have discovered something we can deal with. If the cleaning process leads to build-up then it can be dealt with, too. And so we move on, step by step. All the input provides valuable alternatives - but we must be "scientific", don't you think?
     
  3. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    Ok, so I've had the trumpet back a little while. The valves remain nice and clean, and the action "seems" good, however intermittently the third (mostly) valve sticks - coming back up. But only intermittently. Immediately after it sticks (comes up slowly) I try it again and can't make it stick.

    Inevitably this is when I'm working on Clarke's. It has occurred to me that maybe I am not pushing straight down, but try as I may, it does not seem to change. I don't have this problem on my pocket trumpet, and never had it on the Olds. I wonder if the valve has a bit of slop and I might be better off with medium valve oil rather than the light stuff? Or should I take it back? I doubt he'll be able to see anything wrong, as I say, I can't see anything and it's intermittent, mostly it feels very smooth.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    This whole thread got a little carried away. There are success stories with just about every name brand oil, so generally it really doesn't matter.

    When a valve sticks, there are several things that come to mind:
    Springs a bit weak: you can take them out and stretch them 50% or so and put them back in.
    Oil on top of water: clean and dry the valves and casing before reoiling.
    wrong oil: not the brand, but the vicosity. When valves are new, a thin oil works because the tolerances keep the oil film from "tearing" and exposing metal. When the valves are worn, the distances between the valves and casing need a heavier viscosity oil to keep the film intact - protecting the valves and keeping them moving freely.

    Finally mechanical damage can also cause trouble. Clean and dry the casing. Take a black magic marker and "paint" the third valve piston completely. Insert it without oil and play a couple of Clarke studies. 10 minutes or so of practice will not waste your valve. Remove the valve and check for missing marker, scratches or other telltale signs of damage. You should remove the magic marker when you are done to keep valve oil from thinning it out and dripping on good clothes. I don't know about you, but I get terrorized for valve oil spots now...................
     
  5. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    So, if I am missing ink I take it back to the shop, and if not I try the higher viscosity oil?
     
  6. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    The missing ink is a simple telltale - this is where you have metal on metal contact - so it will show high spots on the valve, or dimples in the valve casing, or some distortion of the assembly.

    You may even consider something that Old Lou mentioned many months ago - he has big strong hands and has to be careful that he doesn't distort the valve casing by gripping too hard.
     
  7. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    So I get stressed about Clarke's and I smash my valve casing against my valve :shhh: actually I am fairly strong and have considered that as well but I "think" I am keeping my grip light enough. But that's an easy test as well if I just rest the horn on the palm of my hand for one practice session.
     
  8. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Recognise that I'm guessing here - try a slightly different grip - say 1 finger above the 3rd valve slide or something, and the rest below. Keep a mental picture of the trumpet "sitting" on you left had rather than being 'gripped' - don't drop the horn though, that'll truly give you dramas.

    I reckon this is unlikely to be the reason for your problem BTW, but you must isolate all the possibilities one at a time to effectively find a solution.
     

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