wynton marsalis vs. all other trumpet players

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Monette84, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    Well, I have to disagree a bit. Yes, we can and should remember and respect those who have paved the way or even toiled un-noticed in their personal pursuit of excellence before our modern "heros" rose to the top, but humans are driven by their passion. When someone/something (for whatever mysterious reason) aligns with an individuals view of perfection or "the best" in some area where they are passionate (like music), I don't think it implies a lack of education or lack appreciation for the bigger picture. Expressing that opinion on a web forum is a way to find fellow-travelers and engage in an easy banter, or to find dissenters and try to win them to the cause.

    For example, I think Eddie Van Halen is the greatest rock-guitar player of all time. Really. But I absolutely recognize that it's a personal preference. In your opinion that may relegate me as one of those "poor people" who needs help, but the amount of time I wasted in my youth listening to rock idols agrues otherwise. I listen to and appreciate the efforts of many guitarists, but something about EVH's playing speaks directly to me. Could he be knocked off my throne? Sure, but it wouldn't be easy, and that's OK.

    Revealing what an individual believes to be the "best" at something doesn't necessarily demonstrate a lack of scope or vision. It just offers their own assessment at a particular point in their existence. Given that the opinion of a 5 year-old may not carry as much weight as that of a 50 year-old...unless you're also in grammar school.

    The OP started with "I think", clearly indicating a personal preference (a preference which is likely shared by others) so I think asumptions about his education or narrow view of beauty are premature...but then again all of the above is just my opinion.:-)
    Bachstul likes this.
  2. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

    Oct 28, 2003
    Boston, MA
    is this a steel cage match?
  3. equivariant

    equivariant New Friend

    May 25, 2009
    One problem with talking about the "greatest trumpet player/guitar player/physicist" is that such terms imply some kind of linear ordering that does not exist. This has nothing to do with subjectivity vs. objectivity. It makes as much sense to argue about the greatest trumpet player of all time as it does to argue about who is the 3rd greatest trumpet player or the 117th greatest trumpet player (i.e. not much at all). On the other hand I also thnk that it is not much use to make statements (like some posters have) such as "thay are all great" - that is just wishy washy relativism. Who exactly are "they"? It is clear that some trumpet players are greater (in any meaningful sense) of the word than others. It is also true that there is no unique greatest.
  4. Bachstul

    Bachstul Mezzo Forte User

    Jan 25, 2009
  5. Bay Area Brass

    Bay Area Brass Piano User

    Mar 2, 2007
    San Francisco
    To me it has EVERYTHING to do with subjectivity if we are talking about as an artist. If we are talking about just the physical act/technique of playing trumpet, then we is ignoring why Wynton and others are so great in the first place :)
  6. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    Well I guess we'll never get on the same page because in this case I think "best" is almost entirely about subjectivity.

    That's exactly why I AGREE with you that it doesn't make sense to argue about the greatest trumpet player (etc, etc...) of all time. Too many subjective bias come into play.

    You kind of lost me here. Some are clearly greater than others, but there's no greatest? How do you order them and what's your criteria (important point there)? Where is your upper echelon and how do you get there? Who's in your top 10?

    Again I'll fall back on opinion (subjective view) here. Just my point of view...
  7. vntgbrslvr

    vntgbrslvr Piano User

    Oct 10, 2008
    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    This thread could almost be a punchline for how forums can distort things into a debate about a totally different subject.

    We went from a simple question of "Does anyone think there is a better trumpet players than Wynton Marsallis out there?", to a discussion on how silly the question actually was, then further on to a conversation about subjectivity regarding such questions.

    I looked at the original posters question as a way to further educate himself....by asking a professional trumpet players forum about who they think might be better "in their opinion" than Wynton and why. How better to find out some of the other greats that are out there?

    Instead of answering and giving suggestions as to who might rival the great Wynton.....this forum has been busy chastising him for asking the "wrong" question, or asking it in the wrong way.

    I'll step in and say that I think Wynton is a really great technician....For me, some of his jazz stuff gets too deep. As formerly noted....some say he just plays it too perfect...almost sterile....While I enjoy much of his music, I usually find others to listen to when listening recreationally. I really enjoy some of the older performers like Louis Armstong and Harry James, but like to listen to Wayne Bergeron when it comes to modern players.

    I'd say Bergeron would be my current "Best", but that's bound to change over time.
  8. samsplace

    samsplace New Friend

    Jul 9, 2009
    I believe this to be an excellent point and my limited time reading at TM demonstrates it well. I have gravitated towards this type thread because I am trying to learn all I can about a new genre of music for me. The well written assessments of why a particular player is a person's favorite has lead me to seek out such artists that I may never have heard of otherwise.

    Yes, all art is subjective, and maybe the argument in this thread is more of semantics. Should the original poster have stated "favorite" and then it would have been an acceptable discussion? Personally I love discussions of whom another person thinks is best or favorite because if I visit that discussion with an open mind that there is always something more to learn, than I am likely to take away a new pearl. My photography necklace is full of pearls I have learned from others on forums such as these and threads such as this, but my music necklace is sorely lacking.

    Maybe I have missed the warning that this forum was only for those that already know it all because it seems, while I have found some genuinely helpful people here, there is a spirit of all knowingness that does not foster learning, nor does it encourage those who are seeking knowledge to continue posting.
  9. Bachstul

    Bachstul Mezzo Forte User

    Jan 25, 2009
    No warning, but you must understand many on the forums enjoy the topic at hand, as well as practicing their writing skills, with wisdom. Some are aware all edit and context is being archived.

    And what is wrong with the adrenalin rush of composing a well written sentence about what one knows anyway? My answer would be only the intimidation the reader may feel if his pride admits he is not as knowledgeable (like me, for example) as the "one with a spirit of all knowingness." as you call them.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  10. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

    Nov 16, 2005
    Vidin, Bulgaria
    What is questionable in this thread is the correctness of the question itself. It is one thing to express opinion, which the original poster did, but fail to explain it or argument it. The fact that I like trumpet player X doesn't mean that he must be compared to Y or compete with Z. Maurice Andre is saying in the booklet of one of his CDs that Wynton is one of the best trumpet players of XXth century. That's fine. Wynton is a great musician. But so is Allen Vizzutti, Al Hirt, Thomas Gansch and many others. Some, like Wynton, have touched many styles and genres. As for anything else there is no one-fits-all size. Other have specialized in a specific field and excelled at, like Maynard Ferguson or Niklas Eklund. Is Eklund or Ferguson any less good than Wynton? I don't think so. Music is about identity and sharing ideas. Anyone that can outstand the crowd is a great musician. Some demonstrate better technical command of the instrument, like Vizzutti, than others. Vizutti can do some stuff that not many trumpeters can do like him - does this make him better than Wynton? I don't know. I enjoy both equally. Music experience sharing all this, not giving points - that's for music competition panels and Brass Bands :shock: no hard feelings to brass banders, but the life of brass bands is somehow inextricably bound up with competition, points and the thrill of demonstrating who's band is the best...if my band don't get the 1st place is usually because the jury is stupid or subjective ROFL

Share This Page