Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Smithi20, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. Jimi Michiel

    Jimi Michiel Forte User

    Mar 22, 2005

    I doubt Miles felt the heat from the next generation. Critics were so happy to see that he had survived the 70s, they gave him a Grammy for We Want Miles. Miles was also working with much younger musicians. John Scofield and Marcus Miller were regular members of Miles' bands in the 80s. There were detractors, but nobody with enough clout to really cause a stir... until Wynton came around and started sounding off.
  2. Walter

    Walter Piano User

    Sep 11, 2006
    I am curious how you can determine that Wynton is arrogant by listening/buying a record?

    I wasn't around and don't have the facts so I don't know if Wynton said anything about or to Miles.....one thing I do know from his biography and people who knew him is that Miles was a pretty abrasive character. Probably part of the reason for his success...he only accepted the best. In interviews I have seen by people who knew and loved him he was a "mean dude"......but a great talent and I love his music.

  3. tatakata

    tatakata Mezzo Forte User

    May 29, 2007
    where can I find more info on this. links to articles etc. Any ideas? I want to see this for myself and am having a hard time finding anything on google.

  4. Jimi Michiel

    Jimi Michiel Forte User

    Mar 22, 2005

    Honestly, I find you a pain in the ass. You maintain complete anonymity, never offer up any substantive thought and are relentless in your troll-ish prodding.

    Below is a portion of the bibliography from my senior thesis on the animosity between Wynton and Miles, which was selected as an alternate to be presented at the 2008 IAJE conference. The Jazz Times and Atlantic Monthly pieces are particularly relevant to the above conversation. I really hope you go check some of this stuff out, spend some time thinking about it and come back with a thoughtful opinion. I'd love to be proved wrong on my view of you.

    -Jimi Michiel

    Bouchard, Fred. “Blindfold Test: Wynton Marsalis.” Down Beat Dec 1983: 53.

    Carr, Ian. Miles Davis: The Definitive Biography. New York: Thunder’s Mouth Press, 1998.

    Colgrass, Ulla. For The Love of Music: Interviews with Ulla Colgrass. New York: Oxford UP, 1988.

    Crouch, Stanley. Always In Pursuit: Fresh American Perspectives, 1995-1997. New York: Pantheon Books, 1998.

    -----. Notes Of A Hanging Judge: Essays And Reviews, 1979-1989. New York: Oxford University Press, 1990.

    -----. The All American Skins Game, or The Decoy of Race: The long and Short of It, 1990-1994. New York: Pantheon Books, 1995.

    Davis, Francis. In The Moment: Jazz in the 1980s. New York: Oxford University Press, 1986.

    Davis, Miles, with Quincy Troupe. Miles: The Autobiography. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1989.

    Davis, Miles. Miles In Paris. Perf. Miles Davis. DVD. Warner Music Vision, 1990.

    Ellison, Ralph. Invisible Man. Second edition. New York: Vintage International Edition, 1995.

    Gioia, Ted. The History of Jazz. New York: Oxford University Press, 1997.

    Hajdu, David. “Wynton’s Blues.” Atlantic Monthly Mar 2003: 43-58.

    Kirchner, Bill, ed. A Miles Davis Reader. Washington: Smithsonian Institute Press, 1997.

    Marsalis, Wynton. Interview. Academy of Achievement. 8 January 1991. 25 July 2005 <http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/mar0int-1>.

    Mikowski, Bill. “Future Views.” JazzTimes March 2000: 28+.

    Murray, Albert. Stomping The Blues. Paperback reprint. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1976.

    Murray, Albert, and John F. Callahan. Trading Twelves: The Selected Letters of Ralph Ellison and Albert Murray. New York: Modern Library Original, 2000.

    Nicholson, Stuart. Jazz Rock: A History. New York: Schirmer Books, 1998.

    Sheridan, Chris. “Wynton Marsalis.” Jazz Journal. Aug. 1982: 37.

    West, Hollie I. “Wynton Marsalis: Blowing His Own Horn, Speaking His Own Mind.” Jazz Times. Jul. 1983: 10-11.

    Wood, Joe. “The Soloist: Albert Murray’s Blues People.” The Village Voice Feb. 1996: 17-22.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
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  5. FourthPlayer

    FourthPlayer New Friend

    Jan 8, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  6. wiseone2

    wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Staff Member

    Nov 19, 2003
    I heard Alvin Batise speak of Buddy Bolden at a class in Bennington College. He sang phrases that he attributed to Bolden. Wynton is not alone in citing knowledge of Bolden.

    Wynton is not loved by everyone, but few have the guts to call him a fraud.
    Wynton Marsalis is one of the best players around, his trumpet speaks for him.
    Fraud ROFL
    Why repeat garbage?

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  7. Smithi20

    Smithi20 Pianissimo User

    Oct 29, 2007
    No one can pretend to play the trumpet like that! I haven´t yet read an opinion on...

    1. If Wynton had continued a parallel career, like he started out, would the orchestral and chamber music scene be healthier?

    2. Funding and opportunities for commissioning new works would be all the stronger given his participation and profile?

    I guess we got sidetracked a little!
  8. hubnub

    hubnub Piano User

    May 4, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    I'm sorry but what exactly was the point of your post then (I'm not attacking, I'm asking)? :dontknow: We're you trying to get at the "orchestral and commisioned" side of trumpet playing to envoke a thread that was more along the lines of a disscussion about Wynton's influence on these topics?

    I don't think Wynton woke up one day and decided one genre was more important than the other, I just think he's found a niche were he can be pretty influencial both publicly and financially (i.e. JALC, Essentailly Ellington) I feel he is probablly one of the most prolific jazz educators in the country and I think he's tryingto make the general public aware of an art form.

    Why does Botti do what he does? Have any of you (just asking) heard him play live or at a jam session? He sounds nothing like his albums. I don't want to get on the subject of bashing Botti either, but the point is Wynton does what he does b/c he can. And I think (IMHO) it's made the "average joe" trumpet community more savvy to the trumpet community.

    .....wasn't there a vid on youtube with some one getting thier "medicine" after verbally bashing Wynton? ;-)
  9. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    Jazz music does not sale a ton of records as it is. Anyone who can promote any version of Jazz, or for that matter, any instrumental music should be applauded.

    I for one used to bash Kenny G relentlessly. But I finally excepted that he wasn't going to play the kind of music that I wanted, and more importantly, the kind of music I wanted the rest of the world to be exposed to. Since then, I have been able to look at his accomplishments with a more open minded view. Just because an artist chooses to promote or create something that doesn't fit neatly into your own preconceived notions about what a certain type of music should be, doesn't mean it's selling out . In fact, everytime an artist sells a cd, a certain percentage will be to new listeners. From this exposure, these new listeners will discover other artists, and so on.

    I learned that much of my own bashing arose from jealousy and immaturity. The argument essentially was this. "Why should this artist be showered with fame and fortune, when there are so many others more deserving ?" Does it really matter ? Wouldn't everyone like to be that lucky person ? Who said life was fair . Be happy for the lucky few that are able to break through and inspire and introduce new fans to our favorites in music.

    Whatever music that might be.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  10. Smithi20

    Smithi20 Pianissimo User

    Oct 29, 2007
    Botti bashing just sounds rude! I couldn´t bring myself to do it! To be honest, Chis is totally off my radar.

    Wynton does what he does because he can, sure, but I am posing these questions hypothetically.... technically he has a unique facility that still has to reach its potential, I believe, as an interpreter (by this I mean through composed music, not improvisation). Often the best results are obtained by handing yourself over to master composers, getting fresh perspectives. This is not bashing, it´s examining an area of someone´s career that may warrant further investigation?

    I suppose it´s all a question of setting...

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