Wynton's indentation

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chet fan, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

    Nov 16, 2005
    Vidin, Bulgaria
    From all living trumpeters on the planet on the moment only people like Al Vizzutti can claim the authority to question what Wynton is doing technically wise. We, the rest of the mortals can only admire and if clever enough to pick up things from him. What he does undeniably works, but what you think you see cannot be used for an excuse to bang your trumpet into your lips.
  2. joetrumpet.com

    joetrumpet.com New Friend

    May 28, 2011
    Tallahassee, FL
    When I was in my Master's degree program 18 years ago, I was playing 8 - 10 hours daily. The ring (from the inner cup of the mouthpiece) on my upper lip was visible from a mile away even if I had not touched the horn for a day or so. I am not a pressure player.

    In a planned career change, I decided to go to law school. Although I still played here and there, the ring faded almost away after a little while.

    Now, I have time to play regularly again. The ring pops right up after an hour of playing, but fades away and is not so readily visible.

    So, in my experience, it is a matter of Wynton playing full-time and his skin not having time to recover in between sessions - similarly to how skin tans. In short, its a skin issue, not a lip muscle issue. It could have something to do with how sharp the inner rim of the mouthpiece is, too. I dont know what Wynton plays, but I would imagine it has a sharper rim, thus "stamping" of the rim into his skin.
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I don't think that Al is in a position to "judge" Wyntons playing technique. World class players have a delicate balance between body and soul. Suggestions can only be made when you are intimately involved with the whole person.

    Al's playing and approach is so different than Wyntons, from mouthpiece to breathing to style, I see little possibility for a quick tip from that camp.

    As far as less mature players picking much up from a YouTube video, the original post did make me smile - and ask if the poster plays for hours in front of a mirror to improve their own playing by observation?
  4. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

    Nov 16, 2005
    Vidin, Bulgaria

    I am far away for the thought that Al would judge Wynton and vice versa. My thought was more in the line that we are not entitled to do so, unless we can do what they can do and know how it is achieved. Delicate is a key word. Marice Andre said once about the Wynton that he was probably the best trumpet player among the living on the world. I wouldn't be surprised if Wynton said a similar thing about Maurice.

    Excuses are for the weak and the lazy. That was my whole point.
  5. wiseone2

    wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Staff Member

    Nov 19, 2003
  6. JediYoda

    JediYoda Mezzo Piano User

    Sep 25, 2010
    State of Confusion
    Is it just me or do others also get highly offended when Alison`s name comes up when we are talking about Wynton!! They are not even in the same ball park...IMO!
  7. lakerjazz

    lakerjazz Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 10, 2006
    I think we all have accepted the fact that professional players do not always do the "right" things. Wynton is pretty much sound in terms of technique, but Rafael Mendez used a lot of pressure into his professional career and only stopped after he realized how bad it was and how much it was hurting him. I already mentioned the Louis Armstrong story. The success of professionals has more to do with will power and dedication than anything.
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
  9. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Yes, I concur that many have the same natural indention in the lip as Wynton and never have played any instrument, still I believe as he played his rendition of Cherokee that he had more of a two thirds mpc on the lower lip just as I was originally taught, not saying I now always play that way with mpcs for trumpet or any of my other different brass instruments. Still some schools are adamant about teaching two thirds mpc on the upper lip and I disagree with that teaching method, relying more on the concept of whatever works for the individual whereas I don't believe any player executes their embouchure the same all the time.
  10. wilktone

    wilktone New Friend

    Jul 18, 2011
    Asheville, NC
    Hi, all. I'm a trombonist and wandered across this interesting discussion. I've heard of other brass instrumentalists (not just trumpet players) who get a "groove" in their lip over the years from playing. If you're concerned about it, I'd consult with a medical professional about it (musicians probably aren't your best resource for health advice). The players I know with a prominent groove don't have any complaints about it, in fact some may find it useful to get their mouthpiece in the "sweet spot."

    As far as mouthpiece pressure goes, I think it would be fair to take all of the comments here with a large grain of salt. Here's a very interesting article on this.

    Here's a quote from it:

    Mouthpiece pressure is definitely something that is valuable to consider, but I think we should be aware when our playing sensations may not accurately reflect reality and adjust our thinking and advice accordingly.


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