Yet Another Triple Tonguing Question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by ejaime23, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. ejaime23

    ejaime23 Pianissimo User

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    Jul 27, 2007
    Houston,TX
    Howdy all! So here's the scoop, I fancy myself an ok player, smarter than your average bear, and while I'm no danger of winning a major symphony gig anytime soon, I'm able to make a living on my horn. With that said, my achilles heel of trumpet playing has always been my triple tonguing, something I've been working on diligently with little to no results for years now, something that makes me question is I should keep up this madness, but that's a different story. Today I came across another form of triple tonguing I hadn't heard, the use of the syllables TA DA GA, the DA syllable was more of a softer tongue (like TADA!!). I was just wondering if any of you folks out there use this method, or have tried it, just looking for some opinions, thanks guys!
     
  2. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    I've never heard of that, but some people use Da-ga-da Da-ga-da as it supposedly more stable rhythmically
     
  3. Firestas'1

    Firestas'1 Piano User

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    Dec 21, 2006
    New Jersey
    It would seem to me that Ta Da Ga would produce a very similar tongue movement to the Tu Tu Ku that is described in so many texts.

    In my own experience I have found that triple tonguing becomes much more doable when emphasis is placed on keeping the syllables light so as to interrupt the airstream as little as possible to keep the phrase flowing. I think this is what the Ta Da Ga pronunciations are trying to produce.

    If you try to nail the TU KU's to the wall the result will not be pleasing.
     
  4. trumpetlore

    trumpetlore Pianissimo User

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    Apr 14, 2007
    Rochester, NY
    Whatever works man, as long as it's even, and rhythmic.
     
  5. Sofus

    Sofus Forte User

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    Jul 26, 2008
    If it sounds right, it IS right!

    One reason why people talk about so many various syllables is probably that different things work for different people, this in turn due to the fact that we all look differently inside our mouths. Another reason of course is that we want different articulation for different music etc.
    I donĀ“t think ANYONE can tell you exacly how to put your tounge when articulating/attackin. You have to find the positions etc. for yourself.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I have found that the biggest problem is the amount of "force" we use when tonguing. Speed is a function of efficiency and the tongue can't go far if it needs to be fast. Practice tonguing only extremely softly, slowly and start with Da-Da-Ga or Da-Ga-Da. The goal in the beginning is the least amount of tongue motion possible. Practice ONLY in the middle register (our tongues move when changing register - that change in geometry slows the habit building).

    I do not recommend slowly building speed. I say stick with a very slow speed for a relatively long time until it is a perfectly honed habit, then "jump" to a considerably faster speed. Perfect that, then jump again.

    My reasoning is that pushing the envelope does not allow you to build great habits, it only keeps you on the border of frustration!
     
  7. ccNochops

    ccNochops Piano User

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    Sep 30, 2006
    White Marsh, VA
    I practice triple tonguing on the "mouthpiece buzz ride home" .....tu tu kuing all the way home. Get home, plug up the trumpet and "POW"....tu ku who? Frustrating to say the least. Now ask the fingers to get with the tongue and do a scale, like even my easiest "F" scale? It's like alien cat fight. I'll let y'all know when I get it figured out :-?
     
  8. Firestas'1

    Firestas'1 Piano User

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    Dec 21, 2006
    New Jersey
    Yes, the finger/tongue coordination can be challenging to say the least. Go slow at first then increase speed in steps until the desired result is acheived.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem is very easy to understand. The sound produced with the mouthpiece has no "resonance" to maintain the tone. There is a considerable amount of "air" moving. Add the trumpet and everything changes. The horn is a resonant structure and the standing wave built up in the horn support the lips, keeping them "closed" thus moving less air and the resonant behaviour of the horn keeps the tonguing speed down. Attacks fight to stop the resonance of the horn.

    Again, JUST SLOW DOWN. Practice slowly with the trumpet/mouthpiece and build habits.
     
  10. ccNochops

    ccNochops Piano User

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    Sep 30, 2006
    White Marsh, VA
    I buy that, just kinda wondered why I can double tongue my tail off on the mouthpiece and it sounds like a garbage when I add the horn. Yes, I do practice slowly with the horn, one painful Arban's number at a time. It'll come in due time, just like all the other things lost but slowly gained back on my return, Thanks for the insight.....chuck
     

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