Back to Square One - Page 2

B15M · 05-06-2005, 08:39 PM

Here is a link for anybody that wants to try it

http://jazztrumpetsolos.com/solo.asp...=SpinningWheel

wiseone2 · 05-06-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

Yeah, and over a period of time you'll gradually replace the need for pressure with a need for a full sound that fits whatever style you're immersed in.

Tomorrow night's my 70's "gig" at my friend house. I was just practicing Lucretia, Spinning Wheel, God Bless the Child, and Get it On... whew... let's hear it for Dave's lead pieces!

Er... busy tomorrow night? Could use a little help...

ML

Call Lew Soloff

He might be up for it.

Wilmer

silverstar · 05-06-2005, 10:00 PM

trickg,

I'm going to have to try that as soon as summer starts. I have always had a problem with using too much pressure...to the point of having my chops end up in a charley horse and not buzzing!

How long did it take you to hear the results? Did you take the pressure off gradually or all at once and work to get rid of the double buzz?

Thank you for that wonderful post...it is really going to help me!

Lara

trickg · 05-06-2005, 10:48 PM

Believe it or not, results usually come very quickly for me doing this - the last 4 - 5 days have worked a small miracle, but I'm not quite there yet.

As for pulling off the pressure, I just kept working at it. I would pull off some pressure, and the tone would break down into a double buzz, so then I would reapply just enough pressure to get the tone to sound correctly again - sound quality was important too.

Anyway, in the third day of doing this, I could control the sound again without it breaking down into a double buzz, and last night, I had it to the point where I could pull the mouthpiece completely off of my lips so that my lips were still buzzing, and then "walk" the mouthpiece back in until I got a solid tone.

I've done this before, so I had an idea of how to approach it. Tomorrow night will be the true test because I have a gig. All I want at this point is to be able to play the ink and not chop out. Nothing fancy, no 8va, just the ink with good sound, good intonation and good endurance.

It's going to take a few weeks, but I know that it will help because I have done this in the past.

Jarrett · 05-07-2005, 05:24 AM

This is just my two cents, but if I feel as though I'm pulling a little harder on the "octave key" I know that I'm
1. Not using enough air to support my sound
2. Not compressing the air correctly
Once I can focus on those two things I'm fine. I usually play very soft high notes like starting on high C going to high G
C D E F G F E D C D E F G F E D C and so on....
That's what I do... it has always worked for me.
-J

Jarrett · 05-07-2005, 05:28 AM

Oh, and I do 2 octave slurred arpeggios... nothing too crazy just make sure that the slur from G to High C is clean, and sings and is very easy. Sorry, that's an important one too me :)
-J

trickg · 05-08-2005, 11:00 AM

Ok, I had a gig last night...

I was all over the place, but endurance didn't seem to be problem. And sometimes the horn just sizzled in my hands and other times it seemed like I was struggling which I think tells me that the work that I have been doing is paying off (when it was sizzling) but that I am still slipping into some bad habits with my chops. (when it wasn't) But, on the plus side, endurance didn't seem to be a problem - just accuracy and "tone".

On the issue of the tone (to sizzle, or not to sizzle) when the sound was "right", playing seemed to be almost effortless. We played "Higher and Higher" and there is this neat little lick in the middle - it only goes up to an A, but when I played it, it was so clear, loud and EASY. It was also incredibly in tune.

So, it's going to be more of the same until I can get my chops doing what they are supposed to be doing without slipping back to the old stuff. I'm going to incorporate some regular exercises this week to see if I can't knock the edges off of this transition and get it to where I'm playing the way that I should.

trickg · 05-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Manny, why do you suppose it was that my accuracy was so far out of whack? Not that it was terrible, but sometimes I would go to play a note, and it would simply pop on the wrong partial.

I suppose that it could be the trumpet. One of the things that I have noticed about this Schilke B6 is that it isn't as forgiving in that as my Bach was. I don't know if this is due to tighter slotting, that the slots aren't as wide, or what. I don't want to analyze it more than I have to - I would rather just put the trumpet up there, blow, and have it sound good and be accurate. I have always thought that if you think about it too much, then you are just getting in your own way.

I was talking to another Schilke owner last night and he commented that I'm probably just trying to play it like a Bach, that if I can learn to lay back and not try so hard that the trumpet will do a lot of the work for me.

On the plus side, my overall intonation seems to be better now than when I was playing my Bach, and I had some problems with that when I first got the trumpet, so I guess I am getting used to it.

A final thought regarding my accuracy issues: as the gig progressed, things seem to "settle" a bit and while my accuracy was never fantastic, by the end of the gig it was much better than it was on the first couple of tunes.

Manny Laureano · 05-09-2005, 02:09 PM

Hmmm...

Does your mouthpiece have a less of a bite than the average mouthpiece? I'm wondering if you need a bit more with this new horn... just a thought.

ML

trickg · 05-09-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

Hmmm...

Does your mouthpiece have a less of a bite than the average mouthpiece? I'm wondering if you need a bit more with this new horn... just a thought.

ML

It's funny you should ask....

With the Bach, I have used a Schilke 14A4a since about 1997 for this kind of playing. While I have always liked how this mouthpiece played, I have never really liked the sound - very bright, very edgy - almost brittle sounding. Right before I purchased the Schilke B6, I ordered a Schilke 14A4 - without the 'a' backbore, in the hopes of finding a medium between the two. I would still have the same cup and rim, but the backbore would be more open. Coincidentally, this mouthpiece arrived by UPS the day that I went to get the Schilke, and I really liked it with my Bach - it was like I found the missing link.

Then I brought home the Schilke. Of the mouthpieces that I currently own, the 14A4 was the best option and is what I have been using to play in the party band. My other mouthpiece is a Stork Vacchiano 3C.

So, getting back to the original question about the rim of how much bite it has, it has the Schilke #4 rim, which doesn't have a lot of bite.

The thing is, I am currently of the belief that I probably need to find a mouthpiece to match both me and the trumpet, and that none of my "lead" mouthpieces are really suited for this trumpet. However, before I take off on a costly mouthpiece safari, I want to exhaust the options that I have with my current mouthpieces and some time in the woodshed.

05-06-2005, 10:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
silverstar Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Posts: 892	trickg, I'm going to have to try that as soon as summer starts. I have always had a problem with using too much pressure...to the point of having my chops end up in a charley horse and not buzzing! How long did it take you to hear the results? Did you take the pressure off gradually or all at once and work to get rid of the double buzz? Thank you for that wonderful post...it is really going to help me! Lara __________________ email: Lara.Shema@gmail.com ***************************************** insert witty comment here

05-06-2005, 10:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	Believe it or not, results usually come very quickly for me doing this - the last 4 - 5 days have worked a small miracle, but I'm not quite there yet. As for pulling off the pressure, I just kept working at it. I would pull off some pressure, and the tone would break down into a double buzz, so then I would reapply just enough pressure to get the tone to sound correctly again - sound quality was important too. Anyway, in the third day of doing this, I could control the sound again without it breaking down into a double buzz, and last night, I had it to the point where I could pull the mouthpiece completely off of my lips so that my lips were still buzzing, and then "walk" the mouthpiece back in until I got a solid tone. I've done this before, so I had an idea of how to approach it. Tomorrow night will be the true test because I have a gig. All I want at this point is to be able to play the ink and not chop out. Nothing fancy, no 8va, just the ink with good sound, good intonation and good endurance. It's going to take a few weeks, but I know that it will help because I have done this in the past. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

05-07-2005, 05:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
Jarrett Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ft. Leonard Wood MO Posts: 269	This is just my two cents, but if I feel as though I'm pulling a little harder on the "octave key" I know that I'm 1. Not using enough air to support my sound 2. Not compressing the air correctly Once I can focus on those two things I'm fine. I usually play very soft high notes like starting on high C going to high G C D E F G F E D C D E F G F E D C and so on.... That's what I do... it has always worked for me. -J __________________ Bach 37 3C

05-07-2005, 05:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Jarrett Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ft. Leonard Wood MO Posts: 269	Oh, and I do 2 octave slurred arpeggios... nothing too crazy just make sure that the slur from G to High C is clean, and sings and is very easy. Sorry, that's an important one too me :) -J __________________ Bach 37 3C

05-08-2005, 11:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	UPDATE: Ok, I had a gig last night... I was all over the place, but endurance didn't seem to be problem. And sometimes the horn just sizzled in my hands and other times it seemed like I was struggling which I think tells me that the work that I have been doing is paying off (when it was sizzling) but that I am still slipping into some bad habits with my chops. (when it wasn't) But, on the plus side, endurance didn't seem to be a problem - just accuracy and "tone". On the issue of the tone (to sizzle, or not to sizzle) when the sound was "right", playing seemed to be almost effortless. We played "Higher and Higher" and there is this neat little lick in the middle - it only goes up to an A, but when I played it, it was so clear, loud and EASY. It was also incredibly in tune. So, it's going to be more of the same until I can get my chops doing what they are supposed to be doing without slipping back to the old stuff. I'm going to incorporate some regular exercises this week to see if I can't knock the edges off of this transition and get it to where I'm playing the way that I should. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

05-06-2005, 08:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
B15M Forte User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Monroe Ct. Posts: 1,282	Here is a link for anybody that wants to try it http://jazztrumpetsolos.com/solo.asp...=SpinningWheel

05-09-2005, 12:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	Manny, why do you suppose it was that my accuracy was so far out of whack? Not that it was terrible, but sometimes I would go to play a note, and it would simply pop on the wrong partial. I suppose that it could be the trumpet. One of the things that I have noticed about this Schilke B6 is that it isn't as forgiving in that as my Bach was. I don't know if this is due to tighter slotting, that the slots aren't as wide, or what. I don't want to analyze it more than I have to - I would rather just put the trumpet up there, blow, and have it sound good and be accurate. I have always thought that if you think about it too much, then you are just getting in your own way. I was talking to another Schilke owner last night and he commented that I'm probably just trying to play it like a Bach, that if I can learn to lay back and not try so hard that the trumpet will do a lot of the work for me. On the plus side, my overall intonation seems to be better now than when I was playing my Bach, and I had some problems with that when I first got the trumpet, so I guess I am getting used to it. A final thought regarding my accuracy issues: as the gig progressed, things seem to "settle" a bit and while my accuracy was never fantastic, by the end of the gig it was much better than it was on the first couple of tunes. __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius

05-09-2005, 02:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Hmmm... Does your mouthpiece have a less of a bite than the average mouthpiece? I'm wondering if you need a bit more with this new horn... just a thought. ML

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