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Old 06-26-2007, 04:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

Robin,

Great post as usual!!!

Roy
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

The harshness detector is on.

I think languages that roll their r's may have a slight advantage.
Dave Hickman includes flutter tonguing in his students exercises. Pretty close to rolling an r.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowuk View Post
I believe that your native language makes a big difference in the way that you articulate and that comparing Phil Smith vs Maurice André is asinine! MA is not a world class orchestral player and PS was not the travelling world class picc player. They have different skill sets unique to what they did for a living and BOTH would have to develop additional skills to cross over! You would have to compare Pierre Thibaud to Phil Smith and then you would have a very french vs a very american style of playing that is not interchangeable! The same would be true of the solo trumpet player of the Berlin Philharmonic vs Mr. Smith - a much different approach to articulation!
The position of the tongue in the mouth, the shape of the consonants that we have learned to speak and the overall color of the language change the expectancies at the ear dramatically. If you spend time with singers from all over the world, you see what they go through to develop projection and articulation in all the languages that they have to sing. When you grow up, you generally are not confronted with a big choice of dialects, you learn what is spoken where you live. Your first trumpet lessons are also based on what is available and where you can play.
If you spend time with latino players you learn a different type of articulation than with german posaunenchor or english brass band players. Russian players also have distinct traits based on heritage.
The internationalized type of higher education has "standardized" the skill sets to a certain extent because players want to be able to get jobs all over the world. That just means that players with a light sound and lightning quick articulation would have to spend time learning to get a bigger sound - if they want an orchestral position somewhere. Players with a huge sound, may need to learn to lighten the articulation up for the same reason.
In many cases, the obsession with a big sound does cloud the brain for diverse articulation.
Learning a foreign language does increase the sensitivity of the ear for tonal shading. This can help your playing by giving you a bigger palette of color and articulation to draw from. Living in Europe with a very international community, I do see big cultural differences. While it is impossible to isolate only language influences on playing, your language does create some of the first aural expectations, so why not?

Please forgive the rant, but I do have trouble sometimes when people not in the international scene make comments beyond their scope of experience. It is a very big world that we are in and after 40 years of playing, I have learned that just about anything is possible!
I couldn't agree with you more. Well said.
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

I agree with Robin. I believe that Ye Shu Han expressed the idea that French had easier time learning to double tongue as their ku is more like que which helped to bring the tongue forward. Read the interview with Vincent Cichowicz and he shares his experience of teaching a Japanese player who could not pronounce tu (at least not in the way English speaking people do) and had hard time learning to articulate clearly.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

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Originally Posted by Vulgano Brother View Post
I suppose if we were to strand a European and an American on an island with trumpets, the European might have a slight advantage. Give each one a lesson or two, however, and the advantage would be gone.
BRAVO! Well said...my point exactly!
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

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Originally Posted by stchasking View Post
The harshness detector is on.
Ha! No kidding...people around here need to relax! Tension is a killer kids- long, deep breaths...
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

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Originally Posted by Principaltrumpet View Post
I was having a discussion with an old teacher the other day and he stated that the launguage a player speaks can have a huge impact on the way a player articulates on the horn. Does anyone agree/disagree?

Would learning a language such as french help someone articulate lighter?
JR

Not only will language affect articulation, but impediments will show up on the horn. I don't believe it is necessary to learn the language. Listen to the sound and copy.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

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I don't believe it is necessary to learn the language. Listen to the sound and copy.
Excellent point! And take lessons from the best players/teachers available, so that you can learn how to do just that.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

The problem with this thread has actually NOTHING to do with language or articulation. Of course when we practice the things that we can't do, we will get better. Does our mother language shift the focus of what is easier for us until we have practiced and learned everything that there is to know? Yes - definitely. Especially in terms of articulation, sound, rhythmn and sense of melody.
For any of you that do not fluently speak any foreign languages, I can only say, try it - you will like it. Communication is also what music is about. The better and more diverse your tools, the better the end product.
Ever wonder why a lot of jazz musicians lived in Paris? It wasn't just opportunities to play. It was (is) a lifestyle that was very conducive to creativity. Melodies in the street which actually are just normal conversation....... There is so much to discover in this big world, if we just leave our eyes, ears and minds open.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Is language a factor?

Rowuk... Both posts in this thread seem spot on!!!
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