Low note trouble - Page 2

Manny Laureano · 04-05-2006, 11:53 AM

There may be some you're not aware of nearby. I'm sure the folks on this board would be happy to help a fellow traveler.

ML

bftrumpet · 04-05-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YTR-2335

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying to find a teacher but the only one I know of won't return my phone calls. I guess he's probably got all the students he can handle right now. I think you're right though. If I could see someone playing the right way It would probably help alot. I'm sure I'll find a teacher somewhere I'll just have to look around more.

In which area do you live? Maybe someone here will know someone nearby to help you?

Ben Fairfield

Derek Reaban · 04-05-2006, 12:58 PM

I love Manny’s answer to this question! Learning as a child versus learning as an adult certainly has you coming at the task from completely different directions. Here is a post that I submitted a while ago on the TH site. There is some very interesting information about these learning distinctions that you may enjoy reading.

Quote:

I had an off-line conversation with another player on the Trumpet Herald, and a lot of our conversation can apply here…

Four months ago, my Wife and I started our 5-year-old at the Yamaha school of music to begin piano lessons. We both played piano as kids and each started at about this age (my Wife at 4 and I started at 5). I have been extremely impressed at the way in which Yamaha has conceived their program. While there is some time on the keyboard, the majority of the time is spent moving to the rhythm (instilling internal pulse) with short tunes on their standard Young Music Class CD, learning solfege (do, re, mi) and applying it to the keyboard, and learning the basic concepts of high notes (treble clef), low notes (bass clef), line notes, and space notes. More than anything, he is just having a ball with his lessons (group lessons with about 10 other kids), and the practice that we do at home with his little brothers each night is just fun for all of us!

In week 3 of the lessons, there was a handout that they sent home with the Parents. It described why 4-5 years old (7 is close enough too) is the ideal time to get kids started learning an instrument and comparing how kids learn versus how adults learn (I wish I had the handout with me here at work but I think I can summarize it).

Kids learn by experimentation while adults learn through logic and reading. A young child will be fascinated by an "old fashioned" typewriter and will push the letter Y again and again to see what happens. An adult will apply logic to the situation and will simply "know" that pushing the letter Y will result in a Y showing up on the page and will not need to go through the motions. However, it's these motions that ingrain themselves from the learning by experimentation model!

As "logical" adults we are trying to come at “practice” from a much different angle than kids. Let her experiment over and over again. Don’t get frustrated because she isn’t moving at your pace (i.e. “avoid the kinds of coaching that sometimes turns kids off”). She can hear her mistakes, and even though it’s very easy for you to “logic” though fixing the problem, she is working with a different type of learning process.

There are some very interesting concepts that are in a book called Brass Wind Artistry that quantify the difference between adults and kids when it comes to learning.

The authors describe three types of brain waves: The Alpha State, The Beta State, and the Theta State. They say, "Until a child reaches 5 years of age, his brain functions in the alpha state (brain waves of 7 to 14 per second). The alpha state is a relaxed and receptive state of consciousness; when in this state, learning and recall are excellent". On the Beta State they say, "Adults function most of the time in a brain condition known as the beta-state (brain waves at the rate of 14-30 waves per second), and this state is not the best state for learning and recall. If adults want to increase their ability to learn and recall, they must return to this child-like alpha state". Still in the Beta State they go on to say, "If mental stress and activity become too aggressive and busy, brain waves may occur at the rate of 30 or more per second, and a state of hyper-consciousness will be experienced. An epileptic during a seizure can have brain waves at the rate of 70 per second, and as a result, all normal sensory awareness is blanked out".

"The theta state of consciousness (4 to 7 brain waves per second) is considered to be possibly the primary creative state, and researchers may have discovered a condition (not cause, necessarily) in which the mind makes inventive leaps and intuitive judgments. The theta-state may well be the state in which genius is manifested."

You mentioned that “the finger movements on the frets are difficult for small beginning hands”. One of the drills that they did in the piano class was to have each child move each of their fingers individually. What we take for granted as adults was very difficult for them to do. Moving the thumb and index finger was not too hard, but the third and fourth finger required a lot of concentration. That’s the kind of thing that might be perceived by a parent providing coaching as NOT TRYING, when in fact it’s just that developmentally that ability is not yet present.

I agree with the other posters, that you need to work with your daughter one on one daily by modeling (maybe 5-10 minutes at a time). Also play music for her regularly and sing the solfege along with it. Make it fun! Sing very simple solfege while playing the same notes on the guitar and watch her learn VERY quickly. After four months my 5-year-old has gotten very good at simple solfege (Do through Sol, with the occasional La included for good measure).

Hope this helps.

YTR-2335 · 04-05-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftrumpet

Quote:

Originally Posted by YTR-2335

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying to find a teacher but the only one I know of won't return my phone calls. I guess he's probably got all the students he can handle right now. I think you're right though. If I could see someone playing the right way It would probably help alot. I'm sure I'll find a teacher somewhere I'll just have to look around more.

In which area do you live? Maybe someone here will know someone nearby to help you?

Ben Fairfield

I live in Shreveport Louisiana. I'm sure there are some teachers here somewhere. I'll just have to do some asking around but if you know of any here let me know.

MrLT · 04-05-2006, 01:41 PM

what ed and manny say. first give it time, its not all going to come at once. Although I've been playing for many years, ~ 2yrs ago with the help of an outstanding teacher i changed my embouchure quite dramatically - it now works. But to start with it was like being a beginner all over again because i knew what I wanted but couldn't make it go because the muscles, habit and coordination necessary weren't there . You need a teacher who can watch you closely and advise you. Low c played 'properly' is not all that easy, you may need to slightly adjust your pivot upwards to bring the lower jaw out in order to let more lip vibrate (especially if you have an overbite, like the majority). this will give a fuller sound and also correct any sharpness. BUT - read what I said earlier - do this with a teacher. What works for me may not work for you.

Good luck

04-05-2006, 01:41 PM	#15 (permalink)
MrLT Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 78	what ed and manny say. first give it time, its not all going to come at once. Although I've been playing for many years, ~ 2yrs ago with the help of an outstanding teacher i changed my embouchure quite dramatically - it now works. But to start with it was like being a beginner all over again because i knew what I wanted but couldn't make it go because the muscles, habit and coordination necessary weren't there . You need a teacher who can watch you closely and advise you. Low c played 'properly' is not all that easy, you may need to slightly adjust your pivot upwards to bring the lower jaw out in order to let more lip vibrate (especially if you have an overbite, like the majority). this will give a fuller sound and also correct any sharpness. BUT - read what I said earlier - do this with a teacher. What works for me may not work for you. Good luck __________________ "I was minding my own business when something says to me, "you ought to blow trumpet." I have just been trying ever since." - Miles Davis Eclipse LR/Warburton 3MD Olds Custom/Warburton 3M Eclipse Red Flugel/Bach 1 1/2C B&H "78" cornet/ DW2B

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04-05-2006, 11:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	There may be some you're not aware of nearby. I'm sure the folks on this board would be happy to help a fellow traveler. ML

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