rowuk

Hi Talcito,
playing other "types" of trumpets is always very beneficial! Because the sound and blend is completely different on the Baroque instruments, you get valuable insite into what the composer probably heard. This is also true for classical and romantic literature on a deep F (valved)trumpet(very common back then).

As far as calling any of the aspects of playing or which horns are best "Bulls**t"- I take a more careful stance. It is again an issue if "just getting the job done" is good enough. If that is your goal, then almost anything goes. The cylindrical tubing on a natural trumpet gives it its characteristic sound. Conical tubes change the sound and intonation irregardless of what is in your head(yes, I can prove that changing hardware changes the sound perceived by the audience). Natural trumpets are very troublesome when you try to mix and match different manufacturers in a section.

The lipping up and down was the actual art of trumpet playing 2-300 years ago. If you have no other choice, you get good at it. Even today it is possible to play without holes, it is just tough to balance modern trumpet playing at the same time except when you are studying and have tons of time to invest. The working "modern" trumpet player will make as few comprimises as necessary - I believe this is with a 3 or 4 hole instrument with as little conical as possible.

Authenticity for authenticities sake is also an issue that cannot be simply blown aside. I admire the people who try to do it the original way. THEY feed the rest of us with first hand models without short cuts. I feel this is necessary to have the whole picture. The baroque trumpet literature only played by Maurice André would not be a good or complete picture of what Telemann or Bach really wanted. Niklas Eklund shows us how with a holed trumpet (very beautifully by the way) and Jean-François Madeuf shows us how without holes. You can learn something valuable from each of them and then you are in a position to choose the best for yourself - without branding the rest "Bullshit".

For Dumbfounded:
German trombones are not "cylindrical". The slide has 2 different bores - the smaller on the mouthpiece side and bigger on the bell side.

The easiest way to really hear the difference between german and american brass instruments is to buy some respective recordings. The Berlin Philharmonic playing Mahler has only german brass instruments for instance. The difference is more than can be described with a couple of short mp3s. They have another basic tone color and react differently when playing a crescendo for instance. You will hear this when comparing major works played by world class players. I think it is important to hear players that "live" their respective horns to get a real feel for what is possible.

I am working on an analysis of trumpet tone color with an american Bb, C / rotary Bb and deep F and baroque instruments. Derek Reaban did some pioneering work here and as I have the instruments, I thought maybe I could offer something useful - stay tuned here at TM - hopefully I am done before Christmas.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

BrassOnLine

I can't understand...
If you practise without holes on a german-system baroque trumpet, you're wasting your time.
That trumpets has an extra bow, so it has nothing to see with a real natural trumpet.
Will not sound as a natural trumpet. Will not play as a natural trumpet.
Sorry to be so sincere.
Best wishes.

__________________
F. Pérez
Historical Brass Instruments
Custom Trumpets
Custom Repair Shop
www.Baroque-Trumpets.com

rowuk

Hi Brass on line,
I know that you are a very accomplished builder of historic replicas. Surely you must be aware of the "Inventionstrompeten" that had the extra bows and no holes (like by Riedl of Austria).

I think it is good to work your face out regardless if you have the holes or not. Not for a historical correctness that my or may not exist, rather for the strength and additional tone colors possible.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

BrassOnLine

All of them had existed at the beginning of the XIXth century...
Baroque was so far by then.
Also, very few of this invention trumpets survived to natural selection. It means something.

Best regards

__________________
F. Pérez
Historical Brass Instruments
Custom Trumpets
Custom Repair Shop
www.Baroque-Trumpets.com