Range, Endurance & Power... - Page 2

trjeam · 01-28-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelbrass

Jorge,

In my experience a fully controlled high B (by that I mean a note you can articulate, shade, crescendo, decrescendo, bend) is nothing to be discouraged about. Don't get too carried away about range that people claim to have on these boards. It's not uncommon for people to claim their range is a 4th above where their actual limit is, and a musical high B is more rare than common. Playing scales and arpeggios to that high Eb is very different than playing music to that level.

My advice is go back to Caruso. If you're doing it properly it will not hurt your sound, ...it will, however, make you a stronger player a bit at a time.You appear to have found a sound you like...great...practising in all registers is the only way to develop that sound.

Just my take on it.

Regards,

Trevor

when doing caruso calisthenics it says to disregard sound... this won't hurt me right?

camelbrass · 01-28-2006, 01:23 PM

No.

They're meant as calesthenics. You're doing it for the pure physical sensation. I don't know how long you've been doing them for but don't go overboard at first, build into the routine. I've been doing the routine about 18 months and I'm doing about 25 mins a day.

Remember, the 4 rules are meant just for the Caruso routine. They don't apply to your general playing.You still need to do technical, flexibility, articulation, flow etc etc studies (as well as play a little music ocassionally!!) according to your needs. In these you need to focus on sound, sound, sound.

If you have any doubts some of the guys on this board (PH among others) actually studied with CC and are eminently more qualified to give advice than me. Send one of them an e-mail..I've always found people even at this level more than willing to help.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Trevor

BobList · 01-28-2006, 03:25 PM

Jorge, like Dave said, take that tone to the high regester with you...

don't forget the stuff John Blount gave you to do...the concepts AND drills....

1. Do the mouthpiece buzz warmups
2. Do the lyrical etudes up an octave (Concone from Maxwell's book)) 4 measures, rest, 4 more
measures
3. Do the flexibilities
4. Do the mouthpiece buzz/ walk-into the horn thing.
5. don't tense up....sound killer, there....

Don't forget what he taught you...I am studying with him again...and my sound and range and endurance have exploded....when his book is published in the spring...get a copy.....it is coming from one of the best.

Bob List, baltimore

trjeam · 01-28-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobList

Jorge, like Dave said, take that tone to the high regester with you...

don't forget the stuff John Blount gave you to do...the concepts AND drills....

1. Do the mouthpiece buzz warmups
2. Do the lyrical etudes up an octave (Concone from Maxwell's book)) 4 measures, rest, 4 more
measures
3. Do the flexibilities
4. Do the mouthpiece buzz/ walk-into the horn thing.
5. don't tense up....sound killer, there....

Don't forget what he taught you...I am studying with him again...and my sound and range and endurance have exploded....when his book is published in the spring...get a copy.....it is coming from one of the best.

Bob List, baltimore

Dang! I forgot all about that stuff! thanks! I still have my notes and maxwell routine he gave me... that should also help out.

dbacon · 01-28-2006, 03:56 PM

Jorge, go back and keep studying with John Blount!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!! Go study, run, fly, whatever!!!!!!!!!!

Take lessons and don't stop, practice what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dizforprez · 01-28-2006, 05:01 PM

Jorge,

It sounds like you are already on the right track; trust your instincts you don’t have to push your upper register every day. If you finish all your other exercises and the chops feel fine play that last Clarke exercise up another half step or do another half step for your two octave scales.

Your concern about losing the sound is a very legitimate concern to have because I think that a lot of the people that fail with a sound based approach are not able to hear where the sound changes. I would suggest that you keep practicing those 2 octave scales making sure you tongue them going up and down. Also try adding Clarke 4 and 5 into your routine, maybe spread the numbers out so that you cover all of studies 2 through 4 over a 3 day period, then touch maybe one or two of the ones from number 5( coming back down 2 octaves after the last note). Transposing Getchell and Concone are great as well, but up an octave would be a bit much for most people if you want to build in a way that will keep your solid sound.

For strength check out what Craig Morris has said about it on his site, following those ideas have helped me a lot lately in the endurance department. http://livmusic.com/

BobList · 01-28-2006, 07:16 PM

Dave, AMEN!!!......I hope I don't sound like a middle schooler fawning over the Tastee Bros. when I speak of John, , but he should stay with Blount...I can't say enuff about his teaching...

http://www.jmb-music.com

read the tutorial, listen to the clips....they speak for themselves...

Bob List, Bawlmer

tromj · 01-29-2006, 05:56 PM

I studied wth CC for about two years. When he said not to be concerned about sound, what he meant was that as you pushed the envelope of your range and dynam,ics, both in the extreme highs and lows, if the sound of a particular note was unpleasant, you should not be alarmed. Obviously, as you play your exercises, you should start with a good sound concept.

trjeam · 01-29-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tromj

I studied wth CC for about two years. When he said not to be concerned about sound, what he meant was that as you pushed the envelope of your range and dynam,ics, both in the extreme highs and lows, if the sound of a particular note was unpleasant, you should not be alarmed. Obviously, as you play your exercises, you should start with a good sound concept.

wow! I studied with a guy who claimed he knew Caruso's work and when he had me do the exercises he told me to just play loud without worrying about sound.

From you're saying it sounds like he was wrong.

tromj · 01-29-2006, 10:08 PM

No, he wasn't wrong, just unclear, IMO. Not worrying about sound does not mean you let yourself sound bad. it's just that when you push yourself to the loudest possible fffff markings, you will at first sound bad, but you shouldn't stop to correct it. And when you go to the highest possible notes you can play, you keep on going, even after the sound dies on you. You don't stop when you start to sound weak. You expose the muscles to the amount of work required to reach the extremes of your playing, and don't get hung up on imperfection. on the way up though, you still have to play as well as you can.

01-28-2006, 03:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
BobList New Friend Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baltimore, Md. Posts: 49	Jorge, like Dave said, take that tone to the high regester with you... don't forget the stuff John Blount gave you to do...the concepts AND drills.... 1. Do the mouthpiece buzz warmups 2. Do the lyrical etudes up an octave (Concone from Maxwell's book)) 4 measures, rest, 4 more measures 3. Do the flexibilities 4. Do the mouthpiece buzz/ walk-into the horn thing. 5. don't tense up....sound killer, there.... Don't forget what he taught you...I am studying with him again...and my sound and range and endurance have exploded....when his book is published in the spring...get a copy.....it is coming from one of the best. Bob List, baltimore __________________ Selmer Claude Gordon Bb Greg Black JB-10 mouthpiece (designed by John Blount) Http://www.JMB-MUSIC.COM Http://www.GregBlackMouthpieces.com

01-28-2006, 03:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
dbacon Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Scottsdale, AZ. Posts: 579	Jorge, go back and keep studying with John Blount!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!! Go study, run, fly, whatever!!!!!!!!!! Take lessons and don't stop, practice what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Dave Bacon

01-28-2006, 07:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
BobList New Friend Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baltimore, Md. Posts: 49	Dave, AMEN!!!......I hope I don't sound like a middle schooler fawning over the Tastee Bros. when I speak of John, , but he should stay with Blount...I can't say enuff about his teaching... http://www.jmb-music.com read the tutorial, listen to the clips....they speak for themselves... Bob List, Bawlmer __________________ Selmer Claude Gordon Bb Greg Black JB-10 mouthpiece (designed by John Blount) Http://www.JMB-MUSIC.COM Http://www.GregBlackMouthpieces.com

01-29-2006, 05:56 PM	#18 (permalink)
tromj Piano User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 319	I studied wth CC for about two years. When he said not to be concerned about sound, what he meant was that as you pushed the envelope of your range and dynam,ics, both in the extreme highs and lows, if the sound of a particular note was unpleasant, you should not be alarmed. Obviously, as you play your exercises, you should start with a good sound concept. __________________ Bach 37 Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631 Flugel Getzen 850 Cornet Yamaha Picc Yamaha Xeno C 8445 Monette B1-5M, B1-5F, B1-5D cornet, Stork 3P, Monette C1-5M

01-29-2006, 10:08 PM	#20 (permalink)
tromj Piano User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 319	No, he wasn't wrong, just unclear, IMO. Not worrying about sound does not mean you let yourself sound bad. it's just that when you push yourself to the loudest possible fffff markings, you will at first sound bad, but you shouldn't stop to correct it. And when you go to the highest possible notes you can play, you keep on going, even after the sound dies on you. You don't stop when you start to sound weak. You expose the muscles to the amount of work required to reach the extremes of your playing, and don't get hung up on imperfection. on the way up though, you still have to play as well as you can. __________________ Bach 37 Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631 Flugel Getzen 850 Cornet Yamaha Picc Yamaha Xeno C 8445 Monette B1-5M, B1-5F, B1-5D cornet, Stork 3P, Monette C1-5M

01-28-2006, 01:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
camelbrass Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 804	No. They're meant as calesthenics. You're doing it for the pure physical sensation. I don't know how long you've been doing them for but don't go overboard at first, build into the routine. I've been doing the routine about 18 months and I'm doing about 25 mins a day. Remember, the 4 rules are meant just for the Caruso routine. They don't apply to your general playing.You still need to do technical, flexibility, articulation, flow etc etc studies (as well as play a little music ocassionally!!) according to your needs. In these you need to focus on sound, sound, sound. If you have any doubts some of the guys on this board (PH among others) actually studied with CC and are eminently more qualified to give advice than me. Send one of them an e-mail..I've always found people even at this level more than willing to help. Hope this helps. Regards, Trevor

01-28-2006, 05:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
dizforprez Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,028	Jorge, It sounds like you are already on the right track; trust your instincts you don’t have to push your upper register every day. If you finish all your other exercises and the chops feel fine play that last Clarke exercise up another half step or do another half step for your two octave scales. Your concern about losing the sound is a very legitimate concern to have because I think that a lot of the people that fail with a sound based approach are not able to hear where the sound changes. I would suggest that you keep practicing those 2 octave scales making sure you tongue them going up and down. Also try adding Clarke 4 and 5 into your routine, maybe spread the numbers out so that you cover all of studies 2 through 4 over a 3 day period, then touch maybe one or two of the ones from number 5( coming back down 2 octaves after the last note). Transposing Getchell and Concone are great as well, but up an octave would be a bit much for most people if you want to build in a way that will keep your solid sound. For strength check out what Craig Morris has said about it on his site, following those ideas have helped me a lot lately in the endurance department. http://livmusic.com/

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