Range question :( - Page 3

Manny Laureano · 01-02-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackD

Hi Manny, I'm curious - when would you start to think of the "eee" vowel?

Fact is...

I don't. I just let it happen. I can say, however, that it doesn't get activated until I'm in the typical symphonic trumpeter's altissimo register above high C and beyond. Lead players altissimo register starts probably around high F or so. Everybody's different.

ML

Derek Reaban · 01-02-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

JackD wrote:
Hi Manny, I'm curious - when would you start to think of the "eee" vowel?

Jack,

Manny, as always, is right on the money. I just finished reading an article about Arnold Jacobs and Vincent Cichowicz in the most recent ITG Journal related to your question that I wanted to excerpt (Page 30):

Quote:

Cichowicz:
I remember experimenting with the teaching methods of Max Schlossberg and Herbert L. Clarke many years ago. They suggest to tongue the lower notes using “too” or “tee” for playing the high notes but I thought, “Where does it change to ‘tee’ and how much?” I started to consciously manipulate the tongue and my playing just fell apart. Yet if I played listening for the sound I produced on the trumpet I could notice that, “Yes, the tongue rises a little bit when I go into the higher register but I cannot make it a conscious thing.” So getting back to what you asked, “What was the teaching like?” These books insisted, “Make sure your tongue is in the ‘teeh’ position” and as soon as you do that you start to endanger producing the tone of the trumpet properly. The tongue, by all its natural abilities, will rise as you go up just the right amount. You really do not need to calculate how much.”

Quote:

but my thinking was i pratice on a set schedule/outline
slurs/slcales
the rage work
later on..slurs, clarke tech, arbans
later....slurs, intervals, tonguing etc
later still...slurs, music im working on, other
but....i guess its time for a chage

Emily,

I really like what Manny told you. At the ITG conference in Denver, James West echoed this idea about finding an optimal “spot” or “mark” where your sound will be the best. He said, "Most noise for the least effort is right on. Yes, the mouthpiece has a place where you get the most sound for the least effort!

Once you find this place (just buzzing on the mouthpiece), be aware that once you insert the mouthpiece into the horn, you may hold your instrument in such a way that it changes the angle of this optimal spot just slightly.

There’s a very interesting article by Sam Burtis (a Caruso Student) called Buzz Off!. I especially like the concept about finding a great buzz on the mouthpiece, and then taking note of the associated angle at which your are holding the mouthpiece when achieving this sound. Many times when the mouthpiece goes in the horn, the angle at which you are holding the horn MAY be different than this optimal angle you found while buzzing the mouthpiece alone. Getting the horn to be in alignment with that angle may help in the ease of sound production on the instrument.

Another thing that I notice from your schedule / outline is that you do a lot of “skill set” exercises, but you don’t mention any “balance / centering” exercises. If you take Manny’s advice and start working from a position of “gorgeous sound”, it would serve you very well to divide your practice day so that you spend some time focusing on balance / center to cultivate this sound which will carry into your skill set work. Craig Morris talks about this in an article called Fundamentally Speaking which I mention in this link. It’s a very well conceived way to focus on the important aspects of your playing day (centering must have a prominent / dedicated session each day).

Hope these thoughts give you a little more detail to consider!

JackD · 01-02-2006, 07:05 PM

Interesting, guys. Thanks!

I ask because it's something my teacher has suggested to me re: high register playing, and it's not something I've ever used before.

trumpetgirl612 · 01-02-2006, 07:39 PM

thanks so much ffriends!!
xoxo
Em

reversedlead · 01-03-2006, 08:33 PM

I would like to offer my humble opinion as well.

I think part of what the braces did was tell your lips "No pressure" because it hurt if you use too much. I think part of your trouble is that you use way more pressure now than when you had braces, but it feels the same, so you don't know it. I went through the same problem, and now I can play higher than I did with braces (this change was in sophmore year, now I'm a senior).

So try a "less" pressure approach.

Also, since you are having pitch troubles (by the sounds of it) it sounds like you are fighting the horn. Try leadpipe buzzing. Take off your tuning slide, and put your mouthpiece in. Try to get a loud reedy buzz out of it. The note should be somewhere in the F (concert Eb) range (it should slot right there). Getting a fat, reedy buzz out of the pipe helps get you "in phase" with the horn, basically, it helps you work with the horn to create sound, instead of against it. It will improve your response and tone, and your pitch problems should go away. (Also, using too much pressure will also make your pitch sharp, as it impinges the lips)

I would also recommend staying away from consciously using vowel sounds. This could (probably, at your stage in the game) lead to overanalyzation, which can do some very bad things to your range. Focus on keeping yourself (tongue, throat) relaxed. If you focus on that and the sound, the vowels will occur naturally.

Just MHO,
Brandon

trumpetgirl612 · 01-03-2006, 10:49 PM

thanks but im not acutally HAVING patich problems
ill keep that in mind tho

reversedlead · 01-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trumpetgirl612

thanks but im not acutally HAVING patich problems
ill keep that in mind tho

Oops.. That must have been the guy above.

Brandon

trumpetgirl612 · 01-04-2006, 10:07 AM

heh its ok, sorry if that came off as rude
thanks for your input tho
i appreciate it

01-02-2006, 07:39 PM	#24 (permalink)
trumpetgirl612 Piano User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: practice room 5 Posts: 260	thanks so much ffriends!! xoxo Em __________________ ~*~ More than just a trumpet player

01-03-2006, 08:33 PM	#25 (permalink)
reversedlead New Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 19	I would like to offer my humble opinion as well. I think part of what the braces did was tell your lips "No pressure" because it hurt if you use too much. I think part of your trouble is that you use way more pressure now than when you had braces, but it feels the same, so you don't know it. I went through the same problem, and now I can play higher than I did with braces (this change was in sophmore year, now I'm a senior). So try a "less" pressure approach. Also, since you are having pitch troubles (by the sounds of it) it sounds like you are fighting the horn. Try leadpipe buzzing. Take off your tuning slide, and put your mouthpiece in. Try to get a loud reedy buzz out of it. The note should be somewhere in the F (concert Eb) range (it should slot right there). Getting a fat, reedy buzz out of the pipe helps get you "in phase" with the horn, basically, it helps you work with the horn to create sound, instead of against it. It will improve your response and tone, and your pitch problems should go away. (Also, using too much pressure will also make your pitch sharp, as it impinges the lips) I would also recommend staying away from consciously using vowel sounds. This could (probably, at your stage in the game) lead to overanalyzation, which can do some very bad things to your range. Focus on keeping yourself (tongue, throat) relaxed. If you focus on that and the sound, the vowels will occur naturally. Just MHO, Brandon __________________ Central Washington University Student of John Harbaugh Bach 37-25LR Getzen 3071C (soon to be Bach 229/25H) CKB 3C

01-03-2006, 10:49 PM	#26 (permalink)
trumpetgirl612 Piano User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: practice room 5 Posts: 260	thanks but im not acutally HAVING patich problems ill keep that in mind tho __________________ ~*~ More than just a trumpet player

01-04-2006, 10:07 AM	#28 (permalink)
trumpetgirl612 Piano User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: practice room 5 Posts: 260	heh its ok, sorry if that came off as rude thanks for your input tho i appreciate it __________________ ~*~ More than just a trumpet player

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01-02-2006, 07:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
JackD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Manchester / London Posts: 763	Interesting, guys. Thanks! I ask because it's something my teacher has suggested to me re: high register playing, and it's not something I've ever used before.

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