mazzrick

Rowuk (Robin),

I think we all appreciate the stressing of rhythm in playing in general and in audition situations. However... Tom Hooten's reasons that he gave for people not advancing never once mentioned rhythm. These shouldn't be eclipsed. They were:

1) Intonation, people were not playing in tune with themselves.

2) Playing too loud and not being able to control that volume.

3) Not having an idea of how to play the excerpts with a musical
understanding, or how and where that part fits into the whole piece.

Thus, I think that the most important statements in the last two major posts on this website were missed or at least overshadowed. Couldn't it be that everyone is over-analyzing this a bit too much and implementing their own ideas (all-be-it a good one like rhythm).

And to try and explain why certain posters were annoyed... you're first sentence was, "hardly what we would expect from players that seriously want to play for a living," and your last was, "Trumpet teachers - heads up! It is your reputation too!" I know tone and 2nd language stuff, I speak three... but being direct is one thing and scathing is another.

Something else I've noticed is that there are not many """entry-level""" auditions opening up in the US these days and nearly none in major metropolitan areas, thus students wanting some experience with auditions may have stretched their level a bit to take this audition. I only know two people who took the audition and they both advanced to the final 11 players (I believe one was runner-up) and they are 21 and 23 years old.

Matt

rowuk

I have an old school mentor (86 years old) Heinz Zickler that I visit to prepare things. I always need to bring enough time as he pulls no punches! He hears much differently than the "modern generation" player. Spectacular is not what he teaches, rather SOLID. His Bach interpretation is second to none!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

rowuk

Points well taken. I think my comment about those players at the audition having at least 7 years of private lessons sums up my expectations from student and teacher alike. Your playing HABITS do not turn bad on a bad day, but things that are not second nature sure do. If a player has an expressed desire to make trumpet playing a living, student/teacher relationship has to get VERY serious (which can still be fun).
It is a mystery to me how many music performance majors do not get the message early enough about what is required and show up to auditions not prepared. I am not talking about train wrecks or other mishaps. There are so many fine recordings today, digital recording equipment is SOOOO cheap, there are plenty of opportunities to get lessons with people in the know. How can somebody miss the boat? I am only talking about the basics of playing here NOT the fine details of repertoire although why rule that out? I get the message that some are annoyed for me sticking my finger in that wound as if it never happened to me - it did, but I figured out what was wrong, got the right teacher and a new lease on trumpet playing. Yes, some teachers must share the blame for not being tough enough and some students must put on the not dedicated enough hat.
Actually, the title of this thread explains where I really wanted it to go. Nobody needs to defend the meek - we need to give them the tools to do better next time. Wanna bet that Wilmer or a number of other TMers could get somebody whipped into shape if they were willing? How many players have asked and then done something about it? I don't know, but also don't see much action.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

JenTrumpet

I went to 3 very fine music schools/conservatories with some of the best known teachers in the country, where I learned a tremendous amount and am forever grateful to them. I know that most of the trumpet students at those schools while I was there have taken/are taking/are winning/and are losing current auditions. All had the same great teachers, yet not all of them win. The teacher can greatly influence a student, but again, the student is responsible for their growth and how far they will take the advice that they are given. I also know of many very successful trumpet players that win auditions that had poor teachings....

A side note: the people that attend the ASO or any other major symphony audition are usually "weeded out" through the initial resume screening. We are focusing so much on the teacher, yet a large amount of people taking these auditions already have performance experience and are not currently studying with a teacher. Studying with great teachers helps immensely, yet we must be responsible for our own performance, and not be so quick to blame others when we don't achieve our own goals.

trpt2345

If you go by Varese's book, rhythm is the most, not least, important part of music. There are plenty of other styles in which this is also true outside of the dead white European guys. Jazz is only the closest western counter example. From 1928 Duke said that it has no meaning without the rhythmic impetus, or rather It Don't Mean a Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing. Truer words ne'er spoke. The medium of music is time just as the medium of painting is a two dimensional space or that sculpture is three dimensional space. Rhythm is the most important element. After that form. Melody and harmony come later.

MM

__________________
Chicago MM

Schwab

Buy a dog. Have fun with the dog. Don't freak out, keep practicing.

__________________
Dylan Schwab
Stage 1 New York

trumpetera

The reasoning completely leaves out the "nerves" factor.

I've seen many solid and musical players with fantastic control over their instrument in all aspects-sound, rhytm, intonation, volume etc.- completely mess up on EVERY audition.

Not because they are not well prepared, or not "ready", but simply because they can not handle the auditioning-situation.

Does this make them inferior players? Not in my book.
Their teachers? ------" "------

The audition in itself is a situation that has got VERY little to do with the actual proffession on a daily basis.

I agree that when studying-or when practising for the rest of ones life- one must ALLWAYS concentrate on the basic musical mechanics (sound, intonation, rhytm etc.), but assuming that we are computers that can be "programmed" to always maintain a given level of just about any aspect of trumpet playing is IMHO somewhat naive.

Things happen when nerves come to play-good and bad.

__________________
Co-principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Principal trumpet Stockholm Baroque orchestra

www.opera.se
www.stockholmsbarockorkester.nu

mholliday

Dear Robin And Wimer

I would like to say enough though I do not play classical music I always find your post helpful, informative and well thought out. I also think that many of the qualities that you dicuss in this thread are the same qualities necessary to preform any style of music well. Good rhythm, intonation, interpretation, style etc.

__________________
M.HOLLIDAY
JUPITER XO
KING SILVER SONIC
MARTIN STANDARD
BACH C TRUMPET
KANSTUL 1525 FLUGEL

trumpetera

I want to clarify one thing.

I'm NOT out to bash anyone on this forum-Robin, Wilmer or anyone else.
There has ben moore than enough of that on both this forum, and on the "trumpetherald".

What I've done in the post above is to state my opinion, wich in SOME respect is different to Robins.

Nice to have that sorted out! :)

__________________
Co-principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Principal trumpet Stockholm Baroque orchestra

www.opera.se
www.stockholmsbarockorkester.nu

mholliday

Dear Trumpetera

The purpose of my post was not in anyway to criticize you or your posts. My sole purpose was to say that I have enjoyed and beniftted from the posts of Robin and Wilmer in the past. If you did not understand my post as that then I do apologize.

__________________
M.HOLLIDAY
JUPITER XO
KING SILVER SONIC
MARTIN STANDARD
BACH C TRUMPET
KANSTUL 1525 FLUGEL