wiseone2

Before recordings were easily accessible, a player who did not live where the music was being made was out of touch until the music came to their hometown. Why do you think towns like Philly, Detroit, Chicago, New York and New Orleans seemed to produce most of the cutting edge players?
When I was a kid in Philly there were at least five major jazz clubs.
We had a lineup of players that was remarkable. On Bass- Spanky, Reggie Workman, Jimmy Bond, Henry Grimes, Jymie Merritt, Arthur Harper, Nelson Boyd, Jimmy Garrison, Eddie Mathias. There were jam sessions going on day and night. Lee Morgan, Johnny Coles, Ted Curson, Johnny Lynch and Johnny Splawn were all there. Ray Bryant, Beryl Booker, Jimmy Wisner and the youngsters, Kenny Barron, McCoy Tyner, Bobby Timmons were the keybord guys. Lex Humphries, Tootie Heath, Bobby Durham, Al Tucker and Butch Ballard were the drummers.
Music was in the air. On Broad Street we had the Philadelphia Orchestra. In those days Ormandy and the Philadelphians were the number one orchestra in America.
You had to be in a city like Philly to know what was going on, today it fits on your iPod.
Wilmer

__________________
Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear.
S.Suark 1951

_TrumpeT_

I have to agree with all the soloists' unmatchable abilities Veldkamp. George Swift's playing is amazing. However, I think that the overall or "average" level of techniques of trumpeters have improved and this will push up the level of techniques which is considered to be 'virtuosic'. I hope I'm being clear here.

__________________


Bach Stradivarius 180/37
Bach 7C

"I built my staccato like the piano; low register with the warmth of the cello; lyrical melodies like the violin; running notes like the clarinet" - Maurice André

B15M

I think it's just human nature.

It's no different then breaking the 4 minute mile.

In general if you ask a pro they will probably say or think they aren't as good as their teacher was but in reality they are better. These players that are the stars now have students that will be better in the next generation.

This is how humanity grows.

Veldkamp

My publisher (De Haske) told me the level of beginners is getting worse. They sell a lot of books with a low grade but lesser high grade stuff. The first thing they tell me when I write a book is that the level is to high to sell it...

Maybe there a more great players now compayered to 50 years ago, but there are also a lot more people around. I follow your theorie but it still depends on the player what he does whith all those information available.

__________________
www.erikveldkamp.com
http://trumpetkings.blogspot.com

Veldkamp

Another thing is that there are much less great big bands around because the public isn't that interested in it anymore compared to the 50tie-60ties. THe Terry Gibbs big band, Ellington band, Mel Lewis/Thad Jones, Basie band, etc. are all gone. Books, internet or more cds/dvs only doesn't create better players. You have to learn music on stage if you really want to be a good player, next to practicing a lot of course. I believe Dokshizer said Arban was his main source for practicing.

Plus I don't think you can practice or play or learn more then Clifford or Mendez did in the old days. Everybody has 24 hours a day. Look what Clifford achieved untill his tragic accident when he was 27. That's unbelievable!

__________________
www.erikveldkamp.com
http://trumpetkings.blogspot.com

tpter1

If I take your point correctly, then I must respectfully disagree. We have the same 24 hour day as them. I hope that someday we do hear someone who can do what Mendez or Clifford did...better. That's how we move forward a humanity.

__________________
-Glenn
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

wiseone2

Wynton was 17 when I met him. He played the Brandenburg for me that day. Later, I discovered that Wynton was a walking encyclopedia of recorded music.
Sergei Nakariakov was about 15 when he played in Brooklyn. Sergei and his father were quite knowledgeable about Wynton. His father wanted him to do everything Wynton had done, but to do it sooner.
These were two very talented young men who had access to information and used it to great advantage.
Wilmer

__________________
Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear.
S.Suark 1951

Veldkamp

So you do agree you didn't hear him/her yet...

Seriously, I think the music developed since then (for better or worse, depends on taste) but I don't think many players will achieve that superb level. Freddie did, Wynton did and maybe a few others but I don't think they play any better then Clifford or Mendez did. And I don't mind either, as long as people make beautiful music. More technique doesn't mean better music. But I think Wynton and Sergei are at the same level some of the old masters were. Maybe they are even technically further, not musically.

The same goes for classical composers. Are the composers any better or more creative and productive now then Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Stravinsky. I think not.

Nice topic btw.

__________________
www.erikveldkamp.com
http://trumpetkings.blogspot.com

Bennem

Intersting comment Veldkamp regarding the sales of trumpet music being focussed upon learner material.

I think this is a feature of society as a whole. In general people today want instant satisfaction with minimal effort. So when the world is full of instant gratification people have reduced their drive to improve themselves.

Playing any musical instrument is a labour of love. When you are learning to play you have a multitude of skills to pick up. Just because you learned how to do some lip slurs today doesn't mean that by next week you will be playing accurate allegro semiquaver lip slurs. All it means is you have started picking up one of the basic skills. Keep doing the lip slurs for a few years and yes you will have improved your skills to be able to play the allegro semiquaver lip slurs. A couple of years of ongoing work is not most peoples idea of minimal effort.

Many players are unwilling/unable to put in the effort to move onto more complex music.

mike ansberry

I agree with Wilmer, that the best of the best are not any better than they were. It does seem to me that there are a lot more really good players than there used to be. (and a lot less work for them) I think this is because the quality of teachers has gone up a lot in the last generation. There were great teachers before, but now it seems like every little podunk school has a really good teacher. For example, little old Austin Peay here in Clarksville has Richard Steffen.

__________________
"Music is a fire in your belly that has to come out of your mouth, so you'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt" (paraphrase of Bleeding Gums Murphy)