What piece other than the Hummel was written for an E trumpet? - Page 2

ecarroll · 08-19-2006, 04:23 PM

JC is right

The 2nd movement is in a very constipated sounding Ab min. if the piece is played in Eb (been there, done that). A min (open strings) sounds far more "open" and transparent (been there, done that too).

Most, sadly, never have the chance to play the Hummel with an orchestra, and a piano sounds like a piano in every key.

Check out Ghitalla's old recording in E (C trumpet) with Pierre Monteux...

Best,
EC
ps: for you Londoners out there, Hummel's manuscript is in the British Museum.

Vulgano Brother · 08-19-2006, 05:33 PM

The Vulgano Brother theory: the Hummel was written for the Eb keyed trumpet and pitched in E so the sound on the important notes would always come out one of the tone holes and not the bell. The other stuff in E was written for valved instruments (including Verdi, who wrote chromatic licks designed to embarrass any trumpeter silly enough to bring only a Bb and no pencil to sight-read at opera rehearsals*).

* Vulgano Brothers bring C trumpets and pencils to rehearsals (no erasers, though).

Clarino · 08-19-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcstites

Well the reason for the hummel being in E rather than Eb is for the strings. They would much rather play in E than Eb.

Trust me, when playing violin I would much rather play in Eb than in E.

For trumpet there are lots of orchestral parts for trumpet in E. Off the top of my head: Academic Festival Overture, Ride of the Valkiries, Dvorak 9, and a bunch of other stuff, I'm too far gone to remember at this time of day.

Pitch in those days was so variable as to make a mockery of anyone trying to claim it was lower or higher for the benefit of modern instruments. It was a local phenomenon, you played in Vienna, you played in one pitch. You played in Paris, you played in a completely different pitch. That was then, this is now.

Manny Laureano · 08-20-2006, 12:18 AM

(Pssst... Clarino...

Academische Fest is for trumpet in "C"...)

ML

Clarino · 08-20-2006, 10:41 AM

I'll have to check the parts I have, but I'm sure at least some of it is fro trumpet in E.

Highly embarrasing if I'm wrong though.

wiseone2 · 08-20-2006, 11:07 AM

I answered too quickly

I thought the question was about solo works for E trumpet, not E trumpet in general.
It is a common transposition, albeit a pain in the butt on the Bb trumpet. It is a must learn transposition.
Wilmer

Clarino · 08-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Oops, Manny was right! I was thinking of Slavonic Dance by Dvorak.

Albert Castillo · 08-21-2006, 08:41 AM

...and too Strauss' Don Juan, Eb trumpets in Ein Heldenleben(in Eb, but a little in E too), Schubert's "unvollendete"; opera stuff as Wagner and Verdi...
E parts are more often in Literatur as we would wish...

Albert Castillo · 08-21-2006, 08:51 AM

...Ah, sorry...
..about the strings on Hummel...
Yes, it isn't so dificult in E or Eb. But there is a pair of excerpts, p.e. in 2nd movement: going from Am to Cm is better than going from Ab minor to Cb minor. That's why all strings players ask me to play in E (and that's the original too!)

Johntpt · 08-26-2006, 09:36 AM

The "Tocatta" movement from "Pulcinella" by Stravinsky lies perfectly on the E trumpet. Herseth used the Schilke E-F-G for that piece, using the E bell for Tocatta, the switching bells to G for the last few movements.

I own a 4 valve Schilke E-F-G trumpet, and I'd say that E trumpets are surprisingly useful. I've used mine many times in the orchestra. A few months ago I used it for the 3rd movement of the Chopin First Piano Concerto - how many players have folded playing that on Bb or C trumpet????? I have friends with the Yamaha E-Eb trumpet, which is also a very nice horn. I recently had Charlie Melk adapt a Bach 239 bell for my E trumpet, making it sound as close to a Bach C trumpet as possible.

JU

08-19-2006, 04:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
ecarroll Artist in Residence Forte User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH/CA/PQ Posts: 1,756	JC is right The 2nd movement is in a very constipated sounding Ab min. if the piece is played in Eb (been there, done that). A min (open strings) sounds far more "open" and transparent (been there, done that too). Most, sadly, never have the chance to play the Hummel with an orchestra, and a piano sounds like a piano in every key. Check out Ghitalla's old recording in E (C trumpet) with Pierre Monteux... Best, EC ps: for you Londoners out there, Hummel's manuscript is in the British Museum. Last edited by ecarroll; 08-19-2006 at 04:27 PM.

08-19-2006, 05:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 3,290	The Vulgano Brother theory: the Hummel was written for the Eb keyed trumpet and pitched in E so the sound on the important notes would always come out one of the tone holes and not the bell. The other stuff in E was written for valved instruments (including Verdi, who wrote chromatic licks designed to embarrass any trumpeter silly enough to bring only a Bb and no pencil to sight-read at opera rehearsals). Vulgano Brothers bring C trumpets and pencils to rehearsals (no erasers, though). __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

08-20-2006, 10:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
Clarino Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sheffield, England, UK Posts: 644	I'll have to check the parts I have, but I'm sure at least some of it is fro trumpet in E. Highly embarrasing if I'm wrong though. __________________ "...you have the perfect C Major chord, with blazing trumpets and inaudible strings." - Daniel Barenboim.

08-20-2006, 11:07 AM	#16 (permalink)
wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Fortissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 2,511	I answered too quickly I thought the question was about solo works for E trumpet, not E trumpet in general. It is a common transposition, albeit a pain in the butt on the Bb trumpet. It is a must learn transposition. Wilmer __________________ Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear. S.Suark 1951

08-20-2006, 11:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
Clarino Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sheffield, England, UK Posts: 644	Oops, Manny was right! I was thinking of Slavonic Dance by Dvorak. __________________ "...you have the perfect C Major chord, with blazing trumpets and inaudible strings." - Daniel Barenboim.

08-20-2006, 12:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	(Pssst... Clarino... Academische Fest is for trumpet in "C"...) ML

08-21-2006, 08:41 AM	#18 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Posts: 107	...and too Strauss' Don Juan, Eb trumpets in Ein Heldenleben(in Eb, but a little in E too), Schubert's "unvollendete"; opera stuff as Wagner and Verdi... E parts are more often in Literatur as we would wish... __________________ Albert A. Castillo

08-21-2006, 08:51 AM	#19 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Posts: 107	...Ah, sorry... ..about the strings on Hummel... Yes, it isn't so dificult in E or Eb. But there is a pair of excerpts, p.e. in 2nd movement: going from Am to Cm is better than going from Ab minor to Cb minor. That's why all strings players ask me to play in E (and that's the original too!) __________________ Albert A. Castillo

08-26-2006, 09:36 AM	#20 (permalink)
Johntpt Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toluca, Mexico Posts: 158	The "Tocatta" movement from "Pulcinella" by Stravinsky lies perfectly on the E trumpet. Herseth used the Schilke E-F-G for that piece, using the E bell for Tocatta, the switching bells to G for the last few movements. I own a 4 valve Schilke E-F-G trumpet, and I'd say that E trumpets are surprisingly useful. I've used mine many times in the orchestra. A few months ago I used it for the 3rd movement of the Chopin First Piano Concerto - how many players have folded playing that on Bb or C trumpet????? I have friends with the Yamaha E-Eb trumpet, which is also a very nice horn. I recently had Charlie Melk adapt a Bach 239 bell for my E trumpet, making it sound as close to a Bach C trumpet as possible. JU Last edited by Johntpt; 08-26-2006 at 09:57 AM.

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